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Anti-sophist
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Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 531
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 Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:03 am Post subject: Re: What's Your Point Caller? |
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| Bongo Brian wrote: |
I still cannot believe you guy's spend so much time trying to argue against the basic principle that we need another full and independant investigation into 9/11. |
We don't. All we ask is WHAT are we investigating? And who is paying for it? And what will it accomplish?
Find me an unanswered question, and I'll call for an investigation with you. |
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DeFecToR
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Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 782
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: Re: What's Your Point Caller? |
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| Anti-sophist wrote: |
Find me an unanswered question, and I'll call for an investigation with you. |
Why were suspected Mossad agents, who were witnessed enjoying the collapse of the towers, allowed to go back to Israel and the investigation in to their activites cancelled?
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"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
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scubadiver
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Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 1850
Location: Currently Andover
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: Re: What's Your Point Caller? |
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| Anti-sophist wrote: |
Find me an unanswered question, and I'll call for an investigation with you. |
Members of the 9/11 Commission knew the FAA and NORAD were lying about the timelines and response times and were debating whether to refer the matter to the Justice Department. |
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Dogsmilk
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Well I've always wondered what that famous quote from Norman Mineta to the 911 Commission actually means:
| Quote: | | "There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, 'The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out.' And when it got down to, 'The plane is 10 miles out,' the young man also said to the vice president, 'Do the orders still stand?' And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, 'Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?' Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And--" |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Vs7KNlpXU
If there's a nice mundane explanation for this intriguing statement or anything to 'explain' it, I'd be grateful to hear it because I do wonder what he was talking about and why it wasn't covered/explained by the commission report.
Since flight 77 did hit the pentagon, the most obvious interpretation seems to be that either Dick was ordering the plane not to be shot down - (possible stand down order or grievous error of judgement) or else the plane was to be shot down at a certain distance (obviously within 10 miles or less) and something went very wrong. I'd find this slightly unlikely as you'd think any shoot down order would be most sensible as far as possible from urban areas.
Why no evacuation of the pentagon if they knew the plane was approaching? For this at least, Cheney is potentially responsible for a number of deaths.
Or is there a reason to dismiss Mineta's testimony?
I'm speculating as this has never been clarified, and I think it should be clarified as to the exact nature of the conversation Mineta said he witnessed.
Answers gratefully received.
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chek
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Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 3889
Location: North Down, N. Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: |
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I'd be very interested to know how two separate buildings turned to powder, molten iron was sloshing round in the basements, and the foundations were sucked in by 18 inches per side.
After that I'd want to know why the White House leaned on the EPA to play down the environmental hazard to the detriment of hundreds of thousands of residents and employees in the area, and how they intend to compensate present and future victims of those decisions.
"Cate Jenkins, an EPA biochemist, sent a letter to the New York congressional delegation, alleging that the inconsistent official reports about inhalant alkalinity were part of an intentional cover up by government scientists and officials.
Jenkins' latest sixty-page document, addressed to the acting Inspector General of the EPA, is in large part a compilation of her previous allegations, but also claims to offer new evidence that criminal fraud is to blame.
In the latest report, Jenkins contends that by failing to report that some of the particulates in the air constituted a severe health hazard--and by suppressing the results of tests for the presence of other toxic chemicals--the EPA misled the public about the dire health consequences of remaining near ground zero or participating in the clean-up effort in the days following the attack.
Tens of thousands of cases of lung disease have reportedly resulted from exposure to the smoke and pulverized debris that hovered in the vicinity of the disaster site for months after the towers collapsed."
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/epamemocomplaint.pdf
Then I'd like to know why the head of the 911 Victims Fund has been pulling $350,000 a year for years and not paid out a penny (except to lawyers denying cases) to a single victim.
"Christine LaSala, president and CEO of the city-controlled WTC Captive Insurance Co., which is managing the 9/11 fund created by Congress, gets the entity's top salary - which has never before been publicly revealed - plus $20,000 in health benefits for herself and her family, documents obtained by The Post show.
Meanwhile, teams of lawyers hired by the fund to dispute and deny more than 5,000 claims for illnesses blamed on toxic exposure at Ground Zero earn up to $550 an hour for "senior partners," the records show. Other top lawyers working for the entity earn higher rates, sources said.
The Post has reported that Captive, a self-insurance fund set up by the city in 2004 to cover claims from the WTC cleanup, had spent more than $40 million as of four months ago on overhead and lawyers. The company has refused to pay a single ill Ground Zero responder."
http://www.thedeepend.org/lifeguard/index.php?option=com_content&task= view&id=474&Itemid=34 |
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telecasterisation
Banned
Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 1873
Location: Upstairs
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Bongo Brian wrote: | Ok...
Your first question.... We 'would be' investigating the events leading up to and including what happened on 9/11 that caused those tragic events to occurr.
Your second question... It would have to be the Tax payer... (I would at least think 3000 lives and 2 wars are worth 'at least' $50Million (ie Blow Job!)
And finally your third question... It will accomplish the truth, closure for the families and freinds of the victims... But more importantly, restore a great deal of faith in democracy which is badly missing from society in our post 9/11 world. |
These are statements not questions.
_________________
I completely challenge the official version of events - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC -I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC - I AM NOT A 9/11 TRUTH CRITIC |
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blackcat
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Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Find me an unanswered question, and I'll call for an investigation with you. |
What happened to the "missing" 2.3 thousand billion dollars announced the day before 9/11? |
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Bicnarok
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Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: |
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How did the unexperienced pilots manage to fly so accurately?
I spent hours on Microsoft Flight sim, and on some occasions for a laugh tried to crash into some buildings including skyscrapers, long before 9/11. And I kept missing, it isnt that easy especially if you have to do an accurate turn to hit a certain building. Even with computerised support (or whatever its called) activated. Eventually i selected the Sopwith Camel, that was easier:)
The 9/11 pilots only got one chance and hadn´t flown a boeing before.
:
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pepik
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Location: The Square Mile
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Can we assume that after reading these questions on conspiracy websites, you all made genuine efforts to find the answers yourselves, and failing that, had to conclude that these unanswered questions suggest some sort of conspiracy?
Or should we assume that you go to conspiracy websites for the questions but make no effort whatsoever to find answers on your own? And that you just go around repeating the questions? |
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Anti-sophist
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Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 531
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Every single question above dealing with hard science above has been answered numerous times on this forum. Let alone in the NIST report and everywhere else. Almost all of the circumstantial evidence is wrong or made up by you CTers.. http://www.911myths.com takes care of most of them.
If you are ignoring the answers, what's the point of answering them again? Tell me this, how many experts need to tell you the same answer before you believe it?
Last edited by Anti-sophist on Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Anti-sophist
Moderate Poster
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 531
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Bicnarok wrote: |
I spent hours on Microsoft Flight sim, and on some occasions for a laugh tried to crash into some buildings including skyscrapers, long before 9/11. And I kept missing, |
That's maybe the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Have you seen the movie where they actually took an inexperienced pilot and had him try, in an actual flight-sim? And he went 3/3? Have you seen it? |
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Every single question above dealing with hard science above has been answered numerous times on this forum. Let alone in the NIST report and everywhere else. Almost all of the circumstantial evidence is wrong or made up by you CTers.. http://www.911myths.com takes care of most of them.
If you are ignoring the answers, what's the point of answering them again? Tell me this, how many experts need to tell you the same answer before you believe it?
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But what about Mineta?
I don't see this issue on 911 myths (might have missed it), it's not about 'hard science' and I didn't make it up (unless the video footage from the commission hearings is faked...)
If there is an 'explanation', I earnestly request it as I'm not aware of it and accept I may be "wrong" in raising it as a question.
Otherwise, isn't the question of what Cheney was playing at a valid one that deserves an explanation?
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It's a man's life in MOSSAD |
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Same with Chek's question about the environmental hazard stuff. Is that a 'conspiracy theory', now?
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It's a man's life in MOSSAD |
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Johnny Pixels
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Bicnarok wrote: | How did the unexperienced pilots manage to fly so accurately?
I spent hours on Microsoft Flight sim, and on some occasions for a laugh tried to crash into some buildings including skyscrapers, long before 9/11. And I kept missing, it isnt that easy especially if you have to do an accurate turn to hit a certain building. Even with computerised support (or whatever its called) activated. Eventually i selected the Sopwith Camel, that was easier:)
The 9/11 pilots only got one chance and hadn´t flown a boeing before.
: |
Easy, they wren't unexperienced pilots. They had licenses and had flown light aircraft and had time in simulators. I've spent hours on Microsoft flight sim and then had the good fortune to have a go on a multi-million dollar 777 flight sim. I managed to land it, arguably the most difficult feat in flying. That's with zero instructor hours, zero real flight time, zero lessons. Just messing around in computer games. These guys had training. Flying isn't hard.
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: What's Your Point Caller? |
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| DeFecToR wrote: |
Why were suspected Mossad agents, who were witnessed enjoying the collapse of the towers, allowed to go back to Israel and the investigation in to their activites cancelled? |
In the US, it's not a crime to enjoy something. |
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aggle-rithm
Moderate Poster
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557
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| Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Bicnarok wrote: | How did the unexperienced pilots manage to fly so accurately?
I spent hours on Microsoft Flight sim, and on some occasions for a laugh tried to crash into some buildings including skyscrapers, long before 9/11. And I kept missing, it isnt that easy especially if you have to do an accurate turn to hit a certain building. Even with computerised support (or whatever its called) activated. Eventually i selected the Sopwith Camel, that was easier:)
The 9/11 pilots only got one chance and hadn´t flown a boeing before.
: |
As James Randi has said, it's not difficult to fail to do something that you claim can't be done. (He was talking about con artists that supposedly could bend steel bars with their minds that they "couldn't" bend with their hands, but the principle is the same.) |
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chipmunk stew
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:05 am Post subject: |
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Why does Bongo Brian's screen name and location now say "Removed"?
_________________
"They, the jews, also have this thing about linage don't they?
We know a person from recent history who had a thing for linage and gene pools don't we?"
--Patrick Brown |
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pepik
Banned
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 591
Location: The Square Mile
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | In addition to this Pepik, it is not the job of the truth movement to "find answers on your own?" that should be the job of our democratically elected government in it's duty to it's people. |
No, its not the job of the government to do everything for you. For example, if you visit conspiracy websites, you get the impression that there are thousands of people out there wondering why the hijackers are still alive. But they aren't alive. They're dead. This myth is one of the most ridiulously easily debunked ones out there. But there's loads of people "just asking questions" who somehow think they need a new 911 commission to find out why the hijackers are still alive.
So I always ask that before I answer a question. Because you need a good explanation of why you were unable to find the answer to a question that was about a ten second google search away. |
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marky 54
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:11 am Post subject: Re: What's Your Point Caller? |
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| aggle-rithm wrote: | | DeFecToR wrote: |
Why were suspected Mossad agents, who were witnessed enjoying the collapse of the towers, allowed to go back to Israel and the investigation in to their activites cancelled? |
In the US, it's not a crime to enjoy something. |
yet. |
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DeFecToR
Moderate Poster
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 782
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: Re: What's Your Point Caller? |
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| aggle-rithm wrote: | | DeFecToR wrote: |
Why were suspected Mossad agents, who were witnessed enjoying the collapse of the towers, allowed to go back to Israel and the investigation in to their activites cancelled? |
In the US, it's not a crime to enjoy something. |
Well i'm glad you sorted that one out for me you fukking prick. That above pile of nonsense is an example of an absolutely textbook response of the type i've come to expect from you trolling idiot apologists. This 'movement' has its problems, but you people are the scum of the earth.
And if you want to use my outrage as an example of how us 'troofers' do nothing but insult you poor and righteous critics go right ahead, you have my permission. I know you sad lifeless types need every kind of ego boost you can get.
BTW. I'm sorry Gabe. I'm past any kind of enquisitive debate. And i'm through with this site.
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"A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
-William James |
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blackcat
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Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | if you visit conspiracy websites, you get the impression that there are thousands of people out there wondering why the hijackers are still alive. But they aren't alive. They're dead. This myth is one of the most ridiulously easily debunked ones out there. |
Whover was on the planes that actually existed is most definitely dead but where do the names of the hijackers come from? Why are some of those people named as hijackers (and their photos shown) still alive as exposed by the BBC? |
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blackcat
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Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Anti- sophist
| Quote: | | Tell me this, how many experts need to tell you the same answer before you believe it? |
It depends on what the experts are saying. For instance, if an expert on zoology tells me that is is common for elephants to fly by flapping their ears then I will not believe him. If an expert in engineering tells me that steel weakens when it should not and that pancake collapses leave no pancakes and that it is no matter for investigation that molten metal stayed under the 9/11 site for weeks after the event then I do not believe him. I think he/they are paid liars and that most experts in the field do not make their opinions known which is not the same as no experts dispute the official lie. When I look at the building clearly exploding and see/hear video testimony from firefighters and others describing the explosions then I do not need to hear blatant bs from an expert telling me the engineering equivalent of "elephants can fly".
You are not wanting us to believe expert testimony - you are wanting us to believe propaganda. Why are you here? Anybody who has realized that it was clearly not the planes that brought those towers down is not going to take any nonsense from you so why do you bother. It is not an issue with us for dispute. It was an inside job and it is blatant. Take your insulting pseudo-science somewhere else. Go join the flat Earth society where they specialise in using expert testimony in "proving" the world is flat. |
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Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1628
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Removed wrote: | General Mahmoud Ahmed, head of Pakistan's ISI is reported to have wired $100,000 to Mohammed Atta. during 9/11 he was also reported to have been in Washington meeting George Tennet, his counterpart. What was the US government's business with General Ahmed?
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The only interesting question out of those posted is what connection Pakistan and its ISI might have with the funding of 9/11, and it is not a simple issue. It is particularly clouded by all the allegations being traceable back to Indian sources, and India has motives to blacken the name of Pakistan's ISI, and some history of trying to do so. Even Indian sources admit that any link is highly speculative. See here and linked pages for a fuller story.
General Ahmed meeting George Tennet, if he did, would not in itself be at all surprising, no doubt security chiefs often meet and consult together. If they were fellow plotters of 9/11, it is hardly likely that they would be meeting at the time of the attacks, the time for planning or funding would be long gone, and they would instead be keeping well apart.
Last edited by Bushwacker on Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bushwacker
Relentless Limpet Shill
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1628
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Quote: | | if you visit conspiracy websites, you get the impression that there are thousands of people out there wondering why the hijackers are still alive. But they aren't alive. They're dead. This myth is one of the most ridiulously easily debunked ones out there. |
Whover was on the planes that actually existed is most definitely dead but where do the names of the hijackers come from? Why are some of those people named as hijackers (and their photos shown) still alive as exposed by the BBC? |
Let us see what the BBC says about its "exposure", shall we? Have a look at this article. Time to bury this tired old myth. |
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Johnny Pixels
Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 932
Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Removed wrote: | Johnny Pixels,
| Quote: | | Easy, they wren't unexperienced pilots. They had licenses and had flown light aircraft and had time in simulators. |
How do you know how competent they were?... and anyway, don't be selective over which question you answer... So answer this (since you seem to know it all?)... What was the US government's business with Mahmoud Ahmed (Head of Pakistans secret service, the ISI) in washington on 9/11? |
I love that line, it almost says "Oh you've answered that question so I'll ignore the truth, change the subject and ask another stupid question"
_________________
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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blackcat
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Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 2376
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| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Let us see what the BBC says about its "exposure", shall we? Have a look at this article. Time to bury this tired old myth. |
Clears nothing up and it does not say where the names of the hijackers came from and why the photos of people still alive were published. It is an article which leaves a very dissatisfying feeling and does not indicate what the original journalist/s have to say. The comments underneath it say it all really, such as:-
"The fact remains that at least 6 of the 19 "hijackers" were and are alive, (according to BBC reports by the way)."
"This column is really most unsatisfying. It seems to be political spin. Real journalism would be to further investigate the issues raised. For instance, who are the men you pictured in the article? What is their current status?
"Changing the photo caption at this late date seems to be inappropriate. This redaction of a historical and controversial news article smacks of Big Brother and the Ministry of Truth."
"If the BBC was mistaken, then the mistakes must be acknowledged and corrected in a less elliptical fashion. There must be accountability. On the other hand, if the BBC article might be correct, to the points on which this might contradict the official record in the US, the matter would then require further investigation and explication in the public interest."
"People have doubts and caption rewriting will probably not do the trick."
"Personally I'm always loathe to re-write the past... I'm not saying this is something that's happened here, but the more cynical out there could point to it as an example of precident setting."
"As an avid BBC reader in the U.S., I am deeply disappointed to see this kind of story put on the front of your "Americas" section. It is yet another in a long line of misleading stories and features from mainstream media that seek to dissuade attention from the cold, hard facts of the 9.11 truth movement (and to be sure, it certainly is worthy of the "movement" moniker).
First of all, the FBI has never formally charged any of these people - the hijackers, bin Laden, and many others - in the 9.11 attacks. Furthermore, there is significant evidence to indicate that several of the supposed hijackers are actually alive and well in the Middle East. Finally, and most importantly, this hijacker-identity theory is a small and relatively unsubstantiatied claim made by a few in the 9.11 truth community, and is certainly of far less importance than the irrefutable and well-documented evidence of a false flag operation. "
"All the BBC does is report the news, why don't you actually try investigating these events for a change instead of mindlessly regurgitating 'facts' provided to you by the Bush administration and the 9/11 (omission) Commission?" |
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Johnny Pixels
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 932
Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: |
First of all, the FBI has never formally charged any of these people - the hijackers, bin Laden, and many others - in the 9.11 attacks. Furthermore, there is significant evidence to indicate that several of the supposed hijackers are actually alive and well in the Middle East. Finally, and most importantly, this hijacker-identity theory is a small and relatively unsubstantiatied claim made by a few in the 9.11 truth community, and is certainly of far less importance than the irrefutable and well-documented evidence of a false flag operation. "
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Yes those comments do say it all really.
Why hasn't the FBI charged the hijackers?
Umm, you know, like, they're dead?
This also shows the CTists mentality quite well. You'd rather believe mistake news reports than the truth, because the mistakes tell you want to hear. You're not interested in the truth.
| Quote: |
Clears nothing up and it does not say where the names of the hijackers came from and why the photos of people still alive were published. It is an article which leaves a very dissatisfying feeling and does not indicate what the original journalist/s have to say. The comments underneath it say it all really, |
It explains that there are more than one person with that name. It's a bit like saying John Smith blew himself up in London, and then you claiming that it's a conspiracy because there's a John Smith alive in Norwich. There's more than one John Smith, it was a mistake. But you won't believe that because it's not what you want to hear.
_________________
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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