Jon Ronson 9/11 Truth hatchet job

[Ally]

Manages to avoid it being placed in the Guardian's Comments section.

'We rationalists are the oppressed minority'

Jon Ronson
Saturday November 4, 2006
The Guardian


I've been getting a lot of emails from people who believe 9/11 was an inside job. They say shadowy forces behind the Bush administration brought down the Twin Towers with controlled explosions. I log on to the British 9/11 Truth Campaign forum to see why they believe what they do. I introduce myself. Within minutes, posters are warning other posters not to trust me.

"Ronson's strings are being pulled," somebody writes. "You can bet there is a Zionist agenda somewhere in what he does." Another poster adds that my Zionist overlords and I don't only control the media, we also control "the money supply" and "everything else as well". And it was us "Zionists" who orchestrated 9/11.

I tell them to stop being anti-semitic.
"I don't see any references to Judaism in this thread, Jon," comes the instant reply. "So what is your rationale for making this comment?"

"Hahaha, bless your soul, Jon," someone adds. "Playing the old religion card, huh? Don't try that one here, mate. It's cheap, pathetic and disgusting."

I feel battered by the relentlessness of their insults. "I'm not going back there again. Horrible, patronising, codeword-using anti-semitic b******," I eventually think. "They're so irrational. They sit behind their computers all day, pontificating away, getting their 'facts' from YouTube. They probably all look like Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons."

I pause, stare out of the window, and clean my glasses. "They're indicative of a whole New Irrationality sweeping the land," I think. "Yes, that's it. This is a cultural shift I'm identifying. Nowadays everyone's either a conspiracy theorist or a believer in mysticism or the paranormal or a religious zealot. What's happened to the enlightenment? Where is our voice? Nowadays, we rationalists are the oppressed minority."

I stare out of the window a bit more. Then I have a very significant thought: "It is time for rational, sceptical people like me to get off the fence and make ourselves known. It is time for us to be publicly and assertively rational."

I'm serious. And I know how to do it. I determine that, from this moment forth, whenever I meet someone with irrational beliefs, I'll patiently take the time to sit them down and point out to them why the things they believe are nutty and stupid.

"They'll probably be hostile to begin with," I think, "but they'll thank me in the end."

As a first step I buy Richard Dawkins's new book, The God Delusion. By page 67 I'm almost certain God doesn't exist. Dawkins argues that it's perfectly acceptable for us to exclude vicars from all intellectual debate and essentially be militant atheists, laughing in the faces of people who believe in things.

"Harsh," I think as I read, "but perhaps a necessary antidote for these irrational times."

Dawkins and I are the same. He's unshackled himself from any lily-livered residual respect for vicars. He doesn't buy the rose-tinted "country vicar coming round for tea" thing. He basically thinks vicars are no different to those 9/11 anti-semite lunatics. They're all part of the same problem.

"I really ought to feel derision for vicars, too," I think as I read. "And I will!"

After being racially abused by those 9/11 conspiracy theorists, it feels good to belong to a club of like-minded rationalists. And so it is that I leave the house on the hunt for irrational people to whom I can benevolently point out the error of their ways.

To be continued ...

· A collection of Jon Ronson's Guardian articles, Out Of The Ordinary: True Tales Of Everyday Craziness, is in the shops

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,1937479,00.html

[Andrew Johnson]

Yup - pretty light on facts.

Here is the link.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,1937479,00.html

Also, let's not forget this:

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=12467#12467

He never contacted me.
=============
I PM'd him on his own forum (http://www.jonronson.com/phpBB2/index.php), but it's never been collected (still in my outbox)
================
From: AndrewJohnson
To: jon ronson
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:29 pm
Subject: Quick Msg
Jon,

I haven't signed up here to cause trouble. I just wanted to offer you DVD's if you can't get them any more easily.

I don't know if you are a member of the NUJ, but I believe quite a few DVD's were sent to members sometime ago. If you want DVD copies of:

Loose Change 2
9/11 Eyewitness
Jimmy Walter's Confronting the Evidence
Steve Jones USVC Lecture

Let me know, I'd be happy to send them along. However, all of these are available on Google VIdeo (I think).

It does rather irritate me when people are rude on the forums, it really doesn't help in debating evidence. I too have been accused of various things for rejecting the OCT (Official Conspiracy Theory) of 9/11 - suggesting that I work for Arabs, or (in a slightly different context) that I have a mentality similar to the Yorkshire Ripper. It's OK - it was only my brother that said that!!

There has been 1 article in the Daily Mail (Tony Rennell) last year about Ian Henshall and Rowland Morgan's book

http://www.financialoutrage.org.uk/911_mainstream_media.htm

Annie Machon and I had letters published in the Observer in April:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1754549,00.html

following the "Charlie Sheen Affair" (still ongoing). When David and Annie came to Derby in December last year, the local paper did a pretty good job of covering our event (we filled the cinema - probably thanks to the article).

http://www.checktheevidence.com/911/Derby%20Evening%20Telegraph%2009-D ec-2005.pdf

I'm still trying to work out where you are originally from. I'm from Skipton originally, "migrated" to Derbyshire now though. Must be the limestone or summat.

All the best

Andrew

[Rabbie McM]

And to think Jon Ronson's "newspaper" was founded in 1821 as a response to the Peterloo massacre of peaceful demonstrators by a govt cavalry unit.

Their present lack of principle for standing up for the truth in this context is even more shameful. But then their circulation figures will be speaking for themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edward_Taylor

http://www.cottontimes.co.uk/peterloo.htm

[Tumbongo]

http://www.jonronson.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1306&postdays=0&postor der=asc&start=0&sid=8dd67ee84afdd8edf303b795b9b11d8b

here is jons itinerary for november, i'm sure if any of us were to turn up he would be happy to sit down with us and point out how nutty and stupid we are.

we'll thank him in the end....

[TimmyG]

he's a bit sensitive is jon int he?

[Stefan]

When he logged on here, how many of you attempted to enlighten him as to the facts in a calm and rational manner, and how many of you simply insulted him for not thinking the same thing you do?

[Ally]

[kbo234]

There is nothing 'rationalist' about Ronson at all. His assertion that belief in the 'controlled demolition' of the World Trade Centres is delusional is based on one of the following:

1) An inability to face ugly and frightening facts.
2) A cowardly refusal to consider the science that PROVES the CD case.
3) A primary concern with his own, rather than our collective wellbeing.
4) Some sort of conditioned instinct or inability to entertain ideas that might force him to engage with subject matter that is taboo for Jews.

If he were a genuine individual and his previous contributions to this forum were to be believed then he would have seriously looked at the scientific evidence for controlled demolition and come back and put us right on this issue. It is clear from the fact that neither he nor anyone else has presented any serious and reasonable rebuttal of the evidence, that there is (unhappily) only one conclusion we can come to about the WTC's on 9/11.

Jon, here is a serious article from a brave Jewish writer:


Here is a documentary from a brave Jewish fim-maker:

"Editted by Ian Neal to remove Holocaust "Revision" documentary and article"

Neither is Richard Dawkins really a 'rationalist'. Behind his 'rationalism' is a belief system as unprovable as any God-dased faith. He makes universal judgements about the meaning and purpose of life that cannot be proven to be , as for any serious Christian or Muslim, anything other than subjective.

By the way, Ronson refers to us in his article as 'b*stards'. I seem to remeber people being very polite to him......but his problem is that because some of us mentioned the role of Zionism in 9/11...we are a bunch of anti-semites (he says so today). We cannot stop Jewish people being ever-so-willing to leap to this conclusion but I have my own opinion about who is rational and who is not....and who is honest and who is not.

[kbo234]

Here is the whole David Cole film in one piece.

"Editted by Ian Neal to remove link"

[blackcat]

[suspecta]

I'm trawling back through that thread and looking for the posts where he was insulted. OK.

Mason-free party said this:

[John White]

I did have a conversation with Jon Ronson recently when I visited his forum here:

http://www.jonronson.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1410&start=195&postday s=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

(from 1/3rd of the way down the linked page)

I had about 5 pages of decent thread conversation with the members over there. The thread has since gone back into the usual non-serious reactions from people, but I did put some solid information across, and from the page views the thread recieved over those few days, I am confident the links were followed up by more than a few people

Its disapointing that Jon has not been able to take any of the reasoned arguments on board, though equally I don't as such expect more from him. However, I see no harm in now bringing the thread I posted on the the forum's attention, especially as I am sure this latest peice by Ronson will inspire some members to take a journey over there:

Where I sincerely hope all such members will be able to keep in mind that their comments, especially on Ronson's forum, will be seen as representative of the movement as a whole

[kbo234]

I am sorry that Jon Ronson retired from the debate, but having stated our belief that 9/11 was an inside job the obvious next question is , "Who did it?"

I do not believe that the average Jew had any more to do with 9/11 than I did but the 'Zionist' fingerprints ARE all over 9/11.

Many of us on this site have spent some time trying to work out the meaning, significance and history of the Zionism and its role in 911.
I have come to the conclusion that the great money powers have adopted Zionism AS A TOOL to use against us all, inluding Jews. It is clear that Hitler was financed by the promoters of Zionism. The reason seems to be that this would assist in the creation of the state of Israel. Israel itself is being used to create the divisions in the world that will lead us into a final cataclysm which is intended to leave the world exhausted and broken and willing to put itself into the hands of these money powers which will then control the whole earth. This is the big picture.

(Remember that the Rothschilds, who started this process, enjoyed only a small local influence with Prince William of Hanau in southern Germany in 1760....See how far they and their allies have come since then!!!)

All this is VERY BAD for the Jews themselves. They, more than anyone have fallen victim to the manipulations and lies of the money powers.

It might look like heartless anti-semitism to place a Holocaust-denying documentary in this thread (all the more powerful for being made by a Jew) but I really believe that it is vital for us all that Jews WAKE UP about 9/11, the Holocaust and all the rest.

Jews have traditionally played a leading role in all human rights, political and revolutionary movements. Jews are the most spiritual of people. They think, they believe, they act on their belief. At this time in history, however, they are a most misled and deceived people (although this can be said about us all). If the Jews wake up and realise what has been done to them by the people who sold them Zionism then there will be much more hope for us all, that we can extricate ourselves from the nightmare in which we currently find ourselves.

[flamesong]

What did everybody expect?

Regardless of what you and I might think of him, the guy has a weekly column in a national newspaper magazine which will be read by hundreds of thousands of Guardian readers. He turns up on our doorstep to find out guage what we are about and gets savaged. He is hardly going to write lovingly of his visit, is he!

The only surprise to me is that it took him three and a half months for it to get in his column which suggests to me that he has three and a half months worth of copy in credit - thus can sit on his backside without having to make much of an effort to make his crust.

[ian neal]

[flamesong]

Perhaps folk could, in a Fathers for Justice way, turn up dressed as Comic Book Guy (Jeff Albertson) from The Simpsons.

[suspecta]

[iro]

i pretty much sympathise with ronson and understand his stance on this one .. im not talking about his overall stance lets get that straight.

i read that thread develop in real time and ronson was lept on like a pack of cats to a rat. thats no way to convince someone of your pov - tantamount to me debating with a Christian and them pasting massive quotes of the bible at my face - im obviously going to ignore them and conclude rather quickly they are mad and deranged.

Ronson's experience says more about what he calls 'them' than himself. They - in this case the likely bunch of regular 9/11 truth uk forumers are a parody of themselves and need to seriously grow out of their own delusions and stop fanboying around 9/11 like its the new fad.

Rationalism is something i hold very true to heart and i always position myself between the two extremes of the alternative and the mainstream - veering slightly to the alternative hence my presence in these circles.

Too many people spend their lives in the box of the alternative and criticise those who spend their lives trapped in the mainstream - when in effect they are both guilty of the same singular blindness ... how can there ever be a reconciliation or coming together with this kind of herd mentality on both sides

opposames as icke would call it in a way.

ronson has his issues - he is cowardly and pathetic in a public schoolboy brattish sense and he is pretty closed minded despite his exposure to alternative ideas... but then thats his choice. If he wants to inquire about 9/11 truth then good on him - at least he made the effort. He should have been welcomed and understood as a sceptic with an interest - not hounded .

[AntiZionistAntiNeocon]

The thing is, this is a classic "ad hominem" attack.

Instead of attacking and criticising our arguments, he is criticising us personally. That is because it is easier to attack us personally and call us crazy than to attack the arguments.
________
List of Suzuki engines

[mason-free party]

Jon ,how can we respect you when you show no respect for the evidence...a national journalist has the responsibility to discriminate fact from fiction...you fail miserably on all counts and the only reason you're still in a job is because you play the piper's tune,you value your job and wealth more than the truth...basically you're a little sh-it who should know better so quit ya whinging and do some 911 research for once ...not that it needs much researching when the truth is staring you in the face like it did our US General friend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsn4JA450iA

[suspecta]

[ian neal]

[Ally]

Ronson came here to get exactly the article he printed, if he wants to level the whole 911 argument under the auspices of less that 0.2 percent of the people who post here then it speaks volumes. Please consider his relationship with Alex Jones and what has been on the front page of prisonplanet for the last 5 years and ask why he didn't go after him and publicise his films on the subject?

Jon's book THEM is currently being made into a Hollywood film, while the book did reveal much about the PTB is was done under the gaze of eccentrics, what was the sub title of the book again? 'Adventures with Extremists'.
Look at Icke getting stitched up by Brandon Corey recently. Be very interesting to see how Alex Jones and Icke will be potrayed in the film of Them.

[mason-free party]

why don't we have a simple poll on here :

1] were zionist and US neo-cons behind 911
2]were US neo cons ALONE behind 911 without zionist involvement

Lets see if its just 0.2% of people on this forum who believe there is a zionist agenda in 911...come on lets have the balls to confront the 'zionist' issue or was PNAC a figment of my imagination and Netanyahu's 7/7 London visit pure coincidence?

[Tumbongo]

[flamesong]

[Ally]

[iro]

that is a very good idea flamesong - an off topic lounge area for members to hang out and let theit hair down on 9/11 issues - but i suppose they can do that in illusions (the forum linked in my sig)

i think this place is meant to be about 9/11.

but single issues can often be boring and repetitive so such a chill out zone might be a nice idea regardless.

[Andrew Johnson]

Whilst I dislike people making ad hominem attacks, they tend to go in cycles.

One would hope that a journalist would be able to take labelling and name calling along with points of evidence and write a fair and balanced article.

It would have been easy for him to write something like:

"Opinions ranged from:"

<insert MFP's quote>

to

<ADJ's quote>

He could have used the same number of words to do this. However, he did not choose to write the article like this. It is therefore incomplete and unbalanced and we need not worry because we have the evidence to show that he used posts selectively (even though they may have been unneccesarily unpleasant). The media aren't going to represent us fairly and it would've been easy for trolls to sign up and post similar comments to the negative ones (but yes, we did it ourselves - but then, that's freedom of speech for you isn't it? You can't have it both ways - sorry folks...)

"Now is the the time to take NOTHING personally" as the Hopi Indian Elders have said.

[flamesong]

I'll start a petition...

Done. Please make your feelings known:

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=5286