A question for the critics

[DeFecToR]

Hi critics. Been a while.

Have a little question that I'd like your take on. In the footage of the collapse of the north tower (i think) the spire on the top of the building can clearly be seen to fall inwards first as the collapse begins. This would lead one to believe that structural failure of the core columns began at collapse initiation. It is also my understanding that FEMA themselves came to the same conclusion.
How then does this fit with any kind of truss or progressive collapse theory?

Thanks for any response and please keep this civil.

ps. Please don't link to other papers or research as time is a luxury right now and I'd rather simply read your response here.

[Bushwacker]

It would not fit in with any theory that the collapses started from the floors impacted by the planes, but as far as I can see it is not true of the collapse of either tower. In the case of WTC7, the first thing seen of the collapse is the machinery penthouse falling into the building, perhaps you are getting confused with that? It would be helpful if you would post some evidence.

[Ignatz]

[DeFecToR]

[Bushwacker]

In those two shots, in the first it does look rather as though the spire is dropping faster than the roof line, but that is the effect of the smoke billowing upwards. On the second shot, from a distance, it can be seen to drop at just the same speed as the top of the tower.

[marky 54]

from watching the clip i'd have to say that the spire collapses at least at the same rate as the rest of the buidling. so what ever caused collapse caused both the building and the core to fail at the same time.

is this possible with the pancake theory?

[DeFecToR]

[Bushwacker]

I do not think that the spire drops before the entire collapse, the smoke going up may lead to the illusion that the spire goes downwards. From a distance, as in the second shot, you do not get that effect. The spire moves at the same speed as the rest of the top floors.

We do not know how the spire was fixed, or at least I do not, but your assumption is, I suppose, that it is fixed to the inner core columns. If so, that implies that the core collapsed at the same time as the outer columns, hence your question. I do not see that as difficult to imagine. The NIST theory, if I have got it right, is that the truss joints mostly did not fail and the sagging trusses pulled in the support columns. That can be just as true of the inner core columns as the perimeter columns. At the impact floor they were not the massive box sections they were below, while the perimeter columns were just as strong as below, and the core columns were right in the centre of the fire. The sagging trusses could therefore pull the centre core columns outwards, as easily as the perimeter columns inwards, perhaps more so. As the collapse wave moved downwards, the centre columns were more substantial and unaffected by fire, and a substantial spike can be seen remaining standing at one point on the videos before it too gives way.

If the core columns are pulled out as the perimeter columns are pulled in, the whole of the top floor block would drop as one unit, complete with the spire, which is what we observe.

[DeFecToR]

Typical.

Why the hell did I bother? So now the core columns DID fail as well. Talk about fit the facts to fit the argument.

Feel free to add to this topic but i wont be checking on it again. For some bizarre reason i thought i might have gained some logic from a critic on this topic at least, but now i remember why i took leave of this crazy nonsense. No offense.

[Ignatz]

[Bushwacker]

[Stefan]

I have watched that footage over and over again- the spire DOES drop a few feet (taking scale into acount) before the roof drops. Simple empirical observation can confirm this.

Watch this a few times through and then come back and say it does not lead collapse- I have defended you lot as being deluded rather than shills a few times- if you can really watch the close up footage and deny this simple observable fact that you really must be shills- it happens.

[Ignatz]

[Stefan]

Ignatz-
What is the explanation for it?

It does not tie in with the official story of a floor collapse coming from weakend trusses.

It ties directly in with the core columns being sliced (ariel attached to columns) and then the building being detonated in sections several floors at a time (simple empirical observation confirms this as well).

Further- we see evidence of the core columns being sliced at the end of the N.Tower collapse as well- a section of interconnected columns remain for about three seconds once the tower has collapsed. Then we see them shift to the right and drop vertically.

Now we know they were connected to the bed rock- so they didn't drop like ghost steel into the ground- the fact they fell vertically means they must have been cut- and very neatly as well.

I propose what we see here is a mistimed cutting charge, and what we see here is what happened to the rest of the collumns out of sight.

What do you propose?

[Bushwacker]

[Ignatz]

[Bushwacker]