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rodin
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Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 2224
Location: UK
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 Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: For the mathematically challenged |
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The WTC towers (as viewed from the POV of the pilot) appeared as a grid of steel. In between each beam or column is glass. Perhaps easier to see how much of the surface was actally glass @ night...
For a sort of analogue experiment I suggest a tennis racquet and an egg. Good luck...
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CB_Brooklyn
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Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 168
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Thermate wrote: | | CB_Brooklyn wrote: | | Anyone saying otherwise does not understand basic laws of physics. |
I'm a qualified mechanical design engineer and I'm telling you and everyone here that your talking complete rubbish. You are in fact the one who doesn't understand (or ignores) basic physics. |
The word "rubbish" doesn't refute anything I said. Sorry  |
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CB_Brooklyn
Moderate Poster
Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 168
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| Snowygrouch wrote: | CB,
Here are the calcs in full which have been up for months; better check before saying I hadnt done them. (Thats two hats your going to have to eat now)
As for them being wrong, I asked TWSU3 to post the calcs on physicsforums and just ask anyone if they seem correct, I even gave him the web address.
So far he has obviously refused to give my calculations to people to ask if they are rubbish. The conclusion I draw from this is twofold:
1: Hes afraid I`m right
2: He isnt really very interested in real facts
Please illustrate the gap in my calculations. For the illustrations of the fuel tank layouts you will have to click on the weblink below.
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http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=5366&highlight=chall enger+tanks
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Strength of structural steel used in perimeter columns = 551MPa or 551N/mm2
Number of columns sheared (WTC1) = 33
Cross sectional area of columns at impact height of planes = 16130mm2
Total cross sectional area of steel sheared by impact= 1,064,580mm2
Velocity of plane at impact=500mph or 222m/s
Mass of plane at impact = 145,000kg (100,000kg dry weight + 10,000 gallons fuel)
Energy of plane@ impact velocity = 4 Giga-Joules (4x10^9 joules)
If the plane is to bounce off the building it must decelerate to zero meters/second over a distance near zero. We shall use a very generous figure of 2 meters (the smaller the figure the greater the force expended), this allows the building to instantaiously move 2 meters at impact which is highly unrealistic. If an object were to bounce off the distance figure would be much closer to zero, giving many; many times the instantaionus force I use here.
1 Joule = Amount of energy needed to apply a force of 1 newton over a distance of 1m
4 GJ/2meters = 2 Giga Newton’s must be expended in doing so.
Stress = force/ area
= 2GN/ 1,064,580mm2
= 1868N/mm2
Thus in order to “bounce off” the side of the world trade centre the steel would have to be over 3.5 times stronger than the steel actually used.
The above analysis is naturally simplified a great deal as I don’t have sufficiently accurate computer models (or the time) to run a finite element analysis routine.
Hence I used extremely generous figures in favour of a “bounce off” scenario and still fell short of the required stress figures by a very considerable margin.
What follows are simulations of wing impact and engineering schematics of the fuel tank layouts in a 767-200.
Of course an EMPTY plane will not penetrate with anything like the effect it did. Trouble is it WASNT empty and had 10,000 gallons of fuel in, or about 40 tons of fuel if you prefer by mass.
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Enjoy.
C. |
Your calculations are for a plane "bouncing" off a building, but no one said that's what should have happened.
Your calculations don't take into account:
no crushing, no bending, no twisting. Tail not snapping off. Fuel filled wings and engines not exploding on impact. Wing tips swept back 35 degrees sawing through structural steel. The building self-healing itself before the explosion.
btw, do you know how delicate airplanes are? Watch these videos of real crashes:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3998892467657667670
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=796070773181554229
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7809823452018518759
Now watch videos on these pages:
http://thewebfairy.com/911/insane/fairbanks.close.swf
http://thewebfairy.com/911/ghostplane/index.htm
Also check here for bird strikes. A bird can tear into an airplane but not structural steel?
http://killtown.911review.org/2nd-hit.html#bird_strikes |
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CB_Brooklyn
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Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 168
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: Re: CB_Brooklyn |
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| alwun wrote: | Hi CB_,
ok thanks. So will I. I've been told in no uncertain terms that there was none. The critical party in this case went on to propose a causation of the micron dust pyroclastic flow which proceeded from the pulverisation of the WTCs. However, so unreasoned was that suggestion for the cause of the pulverisation and resulting pyroclastic flow that I have some difficulty in accepting at face value their denial of the presence of reinforcing steel within the WTCs' structure.
Furthermore, applying elementary linguistic analysis to the post(er) in question forces me to suspect the actual motive behind the (as yet, possibly fair enough)criticism. In other words I do not feel that their desire to 'set me straight' was entirely born of the affectionate philanthropy which I'm sure you'll agree we have come to expect as the norm on the forum here.
cheers Al.. |
Al,
This might help a little...
a quote from page 4 of Judy Wood's paper:
Similar to figure 302, there are "serpent-like" steel beam remnants hanging over the hole. They look as though they stopped short of complete disintegration. The metal in the lower right corner of the picture, with a camouflage appearance, looks deformed and dissolved as if attacked by acid. There is a large amount of material distributed throughout that looks as if it were run through a paper shredder. In the lower levels, concrete rebar is exposed apparently because the concrete attached to it was pulverized.
She references this picture:
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Thermate
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 445
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| CB_Brooklyn wrote: | | The word "rubbish" doesn't refute anything I said. Sorry |
You saying over and over like some twisted mantra "It defies the laws of physics... It defies the laws of physics... It defies the laws of physics..." doesn't make it true for your information. Where's your proof? Good luck providing it...
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alwun
Moderate Poster
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 282
Location: london
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: if it looks like rebar...... |
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CB_B
Thanks for that. That's the one. I will now begin to compose a rebuttal and mayhap even a gentle rebuke.
I'm pressed for time this evening, but watch this space. Thanks again.
cheers Al.. |
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Patrick Brown
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1201
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:00 am Post subject: |
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So if you're trying to say that hole was caused by the famous half-baked-bean-weapon where's the signs of vaporised steel? Oh I forgot the bean weapon is very selective about what it vaporises and what it doesn't!
Sorry to inject some rationality into all this bull but couldn't that hole have once been an elevator shaft? 
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Get the Steven E Jones reports >HERE< |
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CB_Brooklyn
Moderate Poster
Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 168
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Brown wrote: | So if you're trying to say that hole was caused by the famous half-baked-bean-weapon where's the signs of vaporised steel? Oh I forgot the bean weapon is very selective about what it vaporises and what it doesn't!
Sorry to inject some rationality into all this bull but couldn't that hole have once been an elevator shaft? |
If that question was directed to me, my response is: if you care to have an intelligent discussion, LMK. But I'm not gonna bother answering to childish ramblings |
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Patrick Brown
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1201
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| CB_Brooklyn wrote: | | Patrick Brown wrote: | So if you're trying to say that hole was caused by the famous half-baked-bean-weapon where's the signs of vaporised steel? Oh I forgot the bean weapon is very selective about what it vaporises and what it doesn't!
Sorry to inject some rationality into all this bull but couldn't that hole have once been an elevator shaft? |
If that question was directed to me, my response is: if you care to have an intelligent discussion, LMK. But I'm not gonna bother answering to childish ramblings |
The response of a liar and a shill me thinks!
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We check the evidence and then archive it: www.911evidencebase.co.uk
Get the Steven E Jones reports >HERE< |
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alwun
Moderate Poster
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 282
Location: london
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: wrong move |
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Hi PB,
if on the other hand the question was directed at me then be aware that I am genetically a weegee, and as a member of that tribe I naturally take exception should any one attempt to put words(or fists, feet, bottles etc) in my mouth. It is anyway unlikely that I will turn to you should I find myself at a loss over what to say or think.
cheers Al.. |
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