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Ian Editor
Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 68 Location: Oxford
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: Nick Cohen - anti-Americanism and evils of 'militant Islam' |
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http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1995096,00.html
Don't you know your left from your right?
As a child of politicised parents, Observer columnist Nick Cohen followed in their tradition and became a trenchant voice on the liberal-left in the 1980s and 90s. But the Iraq War changed all that and forced him to rethink. In an exclusive extract from his incendiary new book about the failings of the modern left, he argues that anti-Americanism has left it blind to the evils of militant Islam. Read Part II here
Sunday January 21, 2007
The Observer
In the early Seventies, my mother searched the supermarkets for politically reputable citrus fruit. She couldn't buy Seville oranges without indirectly subsidising General Francisco Franco, Spain's fascist dictator. Algarve oranges were no good either, because the slightly less gruesome but equally right-wing dictatorship of Antonio Salazar ruled Portugal. She boycotted the piles of Outspan from South Africa as a protest against apartheid, and although neither America nor Israel was a dictatorship, she wouldn't have Florida or Jaffa oranges in the house because she had no time for then President Richard Nixon or the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.
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My sisters and I did not know it, but when Franco fell ill in 1975, we were in a race to the death. Either he died of Parkinson's disease or we died of scurvy. Luckily for us and the peoples of Spain, the dictator went first, although he took an unconscionably long time about it.
Thirty years later, I picked up my mother from my sister Natalie's house. Her children were watching a Disney film; The Jungle Book, I think.
'It's funny, Mum,' I said as we drove home, 'but I don't remember seeing any Disney when I was their age.'
'You've only just noticed? We didn't let you watch rubbish from Hollywood corporations.'
'Ah.'
'We didn't buy you the Beano either.'
'For God's sake, Mum, what on earth was wrong with the Beano?'
'It was printed by DC Thomson, a non-union firm.'
'Right,' I said.
I was about to mock her but remembered that I had not allowed my son to watch television, even though he was nearly three at the time. I will let him read Beano when he is older - I spoil him, I know - but if its cartoonists were to down their crayons and demand fraternal support, I would probably make him join the picket line.
I come from a land where you can sell out by buying a comic. I come from the left.
I'm not complaining, I had a very happy childhood. Conservatives would call my parents 'politically correct', but there was nothing sour or pinched about our home, and there is a lot to be said for growing up in a household in which everyday decisions about what to buy and what to reject have a moral quality.
At the time, I thought it was normal and assumed that all civilised people lived the same way. I still remember the sense of dislocation I felt at 13 when my English teacher told me he voted Conservative. As his announcement coincided with the shock of puberty, I was unlikely to forget it. I must have understood at some level that real Conservatives lived in Britain - there was a Conservative government at the time, so logic dictated that there had to be Conservative voters. But it was incredible to learn that my teacher was one of them, when he gave every appearance of being a thoughtful and kind man. To be good you had to be on the left.
Looking back, I can see that I got that comforting belief from my parents, but it was reinforced by the experience of living through the Thatcher administration, which appeared to reaffirm the left's monopoly of goodness. The embrace first of monetarism and then of the European exchange-rate mechanism produced two recessions, which Conservatives viewed with apparent composure because the lives wrecked by mass unemployment and business failure had the beneficial side-effect of destroying trade-union power. Even when the left of the Eighties was clearly in the wrong - as it was over unilateral nuclear disarmament - it was still good. It may have been dunderheaded to believe that dictators would abandon their weapons systems if Britain abandoned hers, but it wasn't wicked.
Yet for all the loathing of Conservatives I felt, I didn't have to look at modern history to know that it was a fallacy to believe in the superior virtue of the left: my family told me that. My parents joined the Communist Party, but left it in their twenties. My father encouraged me to read Alexander Solzhenitsyn's exposés of the Soviet Union and argue about them at the dinner table. He knew how bad the left could get, but this knowledge did not stop him from remaining very left-wing. He would never have entertained the notion that communism was as bad as fascism. In this, he was typical. Anti-communism was never accepted as the moral equivalent of anti-fascism, not only by my parents but also by the overwhelming majority of liberal-minded people. The left was still morally superior. Even when millions were murdered and tens of millions were enslaved and humiliated, the 'root cause' of crimes beyond the human imagination was the perversion of noble socialist ideals.
Every now and again, someone asks why the double standard persists to this day. The philosophical answer is that communism did not feel as bad as fascism because in theory, if not in practice, communism was an ideology that offered universal emancipation, while only a German could benefit from Hitler's Nazism and only an Italian could prosper under Mussolini's fascism. I'm more impressed by the matter-of-fact consideration that fascist forces took over or menaced Western countries in the Thirties and Forties, and although there was a communist menace in the Cold War, the Cold War never turned hot and Western Europe and North America never experienced the totalitarianism of the left.
There were many moments in the Thirties when fascists and communists co-operated - the German communists concentrated on attacking the Weimar Republic's democrats and gave Hitler a free run, and Stalin's Soviet Union astonished the world by signing a pact with Nazi Germany in 1939. But after Hitler broke the terms of the alliance in the most spectacular fashion by invading the Soviet Union in 1941, you could rely on nearly all of the left - from nice liberals through to the most compromised Marxists - to oppose the tyrannies of the far right. Consistent anti-fascism added enormously to the left's prestige in the second half of the 20th century. A halo of moral superiority hovered over it because if there was a campaign against racism, religious fanaticism or neo-Nazism, the odds were that its leaders would be men and women of the left. For all the atrocities and follies committed in its name, the left possessed this virtue: it would stand firm against fascism. After the Iraq war, I don't believe that a fair-minded outsider could say it does that any more.
The long road to Baghdad
Iraqis have popped up throughout my life - indeed, they were popping up before I was born. My parents had Iraqi communist friends when they were students who came along to their wedding in the late Fifties. God knows where they are now. My mother certainly doesn't. Saddam's Baath party slaughtered the Iraqi left; and in all likelihood the Baathists murdered her friends years ago and dumped their bodies in unmarked graves.
I grew up in the peace and quiet of suburban Manchester, started out in newspapers in Birmingham and left for Fleet Street in 1987 to try my luck as a freelance. I wangled myself a desk next to a quiet and handsome young Iranian called Farzad Bazoft in the old Observer newsroom, round the corner from St Paul's Cathedral. In 1989, he went to Iraq, where extraordinary reports were coming out about Saddam Hussein imitating Adolf Hitler by exterminating tens of thousands of Iraqi Kurds with poison gas. Farzad was a freelance like me, and perhaps he was looking for a scoop to make his name and land himself a staff job. More probably, he was just behaving like a proper reporter. He had heard about a sensational story of gigantic explosions at secret rocket bases and wanted to nail it down, regardless of the risk or reward. The secret police caught him, and after taking him to a torture chamber, they murdered him, as they had murdered so many before.
It is hard to believe now, but Conservative MPs and the Foreign Office apologised for Saddam in those days. Tories excused Farzad's execution with the straight lie that he was an Iranian spy - and one reptilian Thatcherite declared that he 'deserved to be hanged'.
By contrast, Saddam Hussein appalled the liberal left. At leftish meetings in the late Eighties, I heard that Iraq encapsulated all the loathsome hypocrisy of the supposedly 'democratic' West. Here was a blighted land ruled by a terrible regime that followed the example of the European dictatorships of the Thirties. And what did the supposed champions of democracy and human rights in Western governments do? Supported Saddam, that's what they did; sold him arms and covered up his crimes. Fiery socialist MPs denounced Baathism, while playwrights and poets stained the pages of the liberal press with their tears for his victims. Many quoted the words of a brave Iraqi exile called Kanan Makiya. He became a hero of the left because he broke through the previously impenetrable secrecy that covered totalitarian Iraq and described in awful detail how an entire population was compelled to inform on their family and friends or face the consequences. All decent people who wanted to convict the West of subscribing to murderous double standards could justifi ably use his work as evidence for the prosecution.
The apparently sincere commitment to help Iraqis vanished the moment Saddam invaded Kuwait in August 1990 and became America's enemy. At the time, I didn't think about where the left was going. I could denounce the hypocrisy of a West which made excuses for Saddam one minute and called him a 'new Hitler' the next, but I didn't dwell on the equal and opposite hypocrisy of a left which called Saddam a 'new Hitler' one minute and excused him the next. All liberals and leftists remained good people in my mind. Asking hard questions about any of them risked giving aid and comfort to the Conservative enemy and disturbing my own certainties. I would have gone on anti-war demonstrations when the fighting began in 1991, but the sight of Arabs walking around London with badges saying 'Free Kuwait' stopped me. When they asked why it was right to allow Saddam to keep Kuwaitis as his subjects, a part of me conceded that they had a point.
I didn't do much with that thought, but carried on through the Nineties holding the standard left-wing beliefs of the day. By the time New Labour was preparing for power, I was a columnist on The Observer, and my writing was driven by disgust at the near-uniform good press Tony Blair got in his early years. I felt the adulation was unmerited and faintly sinister, and became one of the few journalists to bang on about the dark side of the shiny, happy people who had moved into Downing Street. My pet topic was the treatment of asylum seekers. I was infuriated by the sight of New Labour pretending Britain welcomed the victims of persecution, while all the time quietly rigging the system to stop genuine refugees reaching Britain. Once again, I ran into Saddam Hussein. I had to. It was inevitable, because among the asylum seekers fleeing genuine persecution were countless Iraqis whom the Baathists had driven to pack their bags and run for their lives.
I got to know members of the Iraqi opposition in London, particularly Iraqi Kurds, whose compatriots were the targets of one of the last genocides of the 20th century. They were democratic socialists whose liberal mindedness extended to opposing the death penalty, even for Saddam Hussein. Obviously, they didn't represent the majority of Iraqi opinion. Equally obviously, they shared the same beliefs as the overwhelming majority of the rich world's liberals and leftists, and deserved our support as they struggled against fascism. Not the authoritarianism of a tinpot dictator, but real fascism: a messianic one-party state; a Great Leader, whose statue was in every town centre and picture on every news bulletin; armies that swept out in unprovoked wars of foreign aggrandisement; and secret policemen who organised the gassing of 'impure' races. The Iraqi leftists were our 'comrades', to use a word that was by then so out of fashion it was archaic.
When the second war against Saddam Hussein came in 2003, they told me there was no other way to remove him. Kanan Makiya was on their side. He was saying the same things about the crimes against humanity of the Baath party he had said 20 years before, but although his arguments had barely changed, the political world around him was unrecognisable. American neoconservatives were his champions now, while the left that had once cheered him denounced him as a traitor.
Everyone I respected in public life was wildly anti-war, and I was struck by how their concern about Iraq didn't extend to the common courtesy of talking to Iraqis. They seemed to have airbrushed from their memories all they had once known about Iraq and every principle of mutual respect they had once upheld.
I supposed their furious indifference was reasonable. They had many good arguments that I would have agreed with in other circumstances. I assumed that once the war was over they would back Iraqis trying to build a democracy, while continuing to pursue Bush and Blair to their graves for what they had done. I waited for a majority of the liberal left to off er qualified support for a new Iraq, and I kept on waiting, because it never happened - not just in Britain, but also in the United States, in Europe, in India, in South America, in South Africa ... in every part of the world where there was a recognisable liberal left. They didn't think again when thousands of Iraqis were slaughtered by 'insurgents' from the Baath party, which wanted to re-establish the dictatorship, and from al-Qaeda, which wanted a godly global empire to repress the rights of democrats, the independent-minded, women and homosexuals. They didn't think again when Iraqis defi ed the death threats and went to vote on new constitutions and governments. Eventually, I grew tired of waiting for a change that was never going to come and resolved to find out what had happened to a left whose benevolence I had taken for granted.
All right, you might say, but the reaction to the second Iraq war is not a good enough reason to write a book. The US and British governments sold the invasion to their publics with a false bill of goods and its aftermath was a bloody catastrophe. It was utopian to hope that leftists and liberals could oppose George W Bush while his troops poured into Iraq - and killed their fair share of civilians - while at the same time standing up for the freedoms of others. There was too much emotional energy invested in opposing the war, too much justifiable horror at the chaos and too much justifiable anger that the talk of weapons of mass destruction turned out to be nonsense. The politically committed are like football fans. They support their side come what may and refuse to see any good in the opposing team. The liberal left bitterly opposed war, and their indifference afterwards was a natural consequence of the fury directed at Bush.
It is a fair argument, which I've heard many times, although I wince at the implied passivity. People don't just react to a crisis: they choose how they react. If a man walks down the street trying to pick a fight, you can judge those he confronts by how they respond. Do they hit back, run away or try to calm him down? The confrontation is not of their making, but they still have a choice, and what choice they make reveals their character and beliefs. If you insist on treating the reaction to the second Iraq war as a one-off that doesn't reveal a deeper sickness, I'll change the subject.
Why is it that apologies for a militant Islam which stands for everything the liberal left is against come from the liberal left? Why will students hear a leftish postmodern theorist defend the exploitation of women in traditional cultures but not a crusty conservative don? After the American and British wars in Bosnia and Kosovo against Slobodan Milosevic's ethnic cleansers, why were men and women of the left denying the existence of Serb concentration camps? As important, why did a European Union that daily announces its commitment to the liberal principles of human rights and international law do nothing as crimes against humanity took place just over its borders? Why is Palestine a cause for the liberal left, but not China, Sudan, Zimbabwe, the Congo or North Korea? Why, even in the case of Palestine, can't those who say they support the Palestinian cause tell you what type of Palestine they would like to see? After the 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington why were you as likely to read that a sinister conspiracy of Jews controlled American or British foreign policy in a superior literary journal as in a neo-Nazi hate sheet? And why after the 7/7 attacks on London did leftish rather than right-wing newspapers run pieces excusing suicide bombers who were inspired by a psychopathic theology from the ultra-right?
In short, why is the world upside down? In the past conservatives made excuses for fascism because they mistakenly saw it as a continuation of their democratic rightwing ideas. Now, overwhelmingly and every where, liberals and leftists are far more likely than conservatives to excuse fascistic governments and movements, with the exception of their native far-right parties. As long as local racists are white, they have no difficulty in opposing them in a manner that would have been recognisable to the traditional left. But give them a foreign far-right movement that is anti-Western and they treat it as at best a distraction and at worst an ally.
A part of the answer is that it isn't at all clear what it means to be on the left at the moment. I doubt if anyone can tell you what a society significantly more left wing than ours would look like and how its economy and government would work (let alone whether a majority of their fellow citizens would want to live there). Socialism, which provided the definition of what it meant to be on the left from the 1880s to the 1980s, is gone. Disgraced by the communists' atrocities and floored by the success of market-based economies, it no longer exists as a coherent programme for government. Even the modest and humane social democratic systems of Europe are under strain and look dreadfully vulnerable.
It is not novel to say that socialism is dead. My argument is that its failure has brought a dark liberation to people who consider themselves to be on the liberal left. It has freed them to go along with any movement however far to the right it may be, as long as it is against the status quo in general and, specifically, America. I hate to repeat the overused quote that 'when a man stops believing in God he doesn't then believe in nothing, he believes anything', but there is no escaping it. Because it is very hard to imagine a radical leftwing alternative, or even mildly radical alternative, intellectuals in particular are ready to excuse the movements of the far right as long as they are anti-Western.
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http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1995122,00.html
Don't you know your left from your right? Part II
Read Part I here
Nick Cohen
Sunday January 21, 2007
The Observer
The disgrace of the anti-war movement
On 15 February 2003 , about a million liberal-minded people marched through London to oppose the overthrow of a fascist regime. It was the biggest protest in British history, but it was dwarfed by the march to oppose the overthrow of a fascist regime in Mussolini's old capital of Rome, where about three million Italians joined what the Guinness Book of Records said was the largest anti-war rally ever. In Madrid, about 650,000 marched to oppose the overthrow of a fascist regime in the biggest demonstration in Spain since the death of General Franco in 1975. In Berlin, the call to oppose the overthrow of a fascist regime brought demonstrators from 300 German towns and cities, some of them old enough to remember when Adolf Hitler ruled from the Reich Chancellery. In Greece, where the previous generation had overthrown a military junta, the police had to fire tear gas at leftists who were so angry at the prospect of a fascist regime being overthrown that they armed themselves with petrol bombs.
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The French protests against the overthrow of a fascist regime went off without trouble. Between 100,000 and 200,000 French demonstrators stayed peaceful as they rallied in the Place de la Bastille, where in 1789 Parisian revolutionaries had stormed the dungeons of Louis XVI in the name of the universal rights of man.
In Ireland, Sinn Fein was in charge of the protests and produced the most remarkable spectacle of a remarkable day: a peace movement led by the IRA. Only in the newly liberated countries of the Soviet bloc were the demonstrations small and anti-war sentiment muted.
The protests against the overthrow of a fascist regime weren't just a European phenomenon. From Calgary to Buenos Aires, the left of the Americas marched. In Cape Town and Durban, politicians from the African National Congress, who had once appealed for international solidarity against South Africa's apartheid regime, led the opposition to the overthrow of a fascist regime. On a memorable day, American scientists at the McMurdo Station in Antarctica produced another entry for the record books. Historians will tell how the continent's first political demonstration was a protest against the overthrow of a fascist regime.
Saddam Hussein was delighted, and ordered Iraqi television to show the global day of action to its captive audience. The slogan the British marchers carried, 'No war - Freedom for Palestine', might have been written by his foreign ministry. He instructed the citizens of hdad to march and demand that he remain in power. Several thousand went through the streets carrying Kalashnikovs and posters of the Great Leader.
No one knows how many people demonstrated. The BBC estimated between six and 10 million, and anti-war activists tripled that, but no one doubted that these were history's largest co-ordinated demonstrations and that millions, maybe tens of millions, had marched to keep a fascist regime in power.
Afterwards, nothing drove the protesters wilder than sceptics telling them that if they had got what they wanted, they would, in fact, have kept a fascist regime in power. They were good people on the whole, who hadn't thought about the Baath Party. Euan Ferguson, of The Observer, watched the London demonstrators and saw a side of Britain march by that wasn't all bad:
'There were, of course, the usual suspects - the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, the Socialist Workers' Party, the anarchists. But even they looked shocked at the number of their fellow marchers: it is safe to say they had never experienced such a mass of humanity. There were nuns, toddlers, barristers, the Eton George Orwell Society. Archaeologists Against War. Walthamstow Catholic Church, the Swaffham Women's Choir and "Notts County Supporters Say Make Love Not War (And a Home Win against Bristol would be Nice)". One group of SWP stalwarts were joined, for the first march in any of their histories, by their mothers. There were country folk and lecturers, dentists and poulterers, a hairdresser from Cardiff and a poet from Cheltenham. I called a friend at two o'clock, who was still making her ponderous way along the Embankment - "It's not a march yet, more of a record shuffle" - and she expressed delight at her first protest. "You wouldn't believe it; there are girls here with good nails and really nice bags."'
Alongside the girls with good nails were thoughtful marchers who had supported the interventions in Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan but were aghast at the recklessness of the Iraq adventure. A few recognised that they were making a hideous choice. The South American playwright Ariel Dorfman, who had experienced state terror in General Pinochet's Chile, published a letter to an 'unknown Iraqi' and asked, 'What right does anyone have to deny you and your fellow Iraqis that liberation from tyranny? What right do we have to oppose the war the United States is preparing to wage on your country, if it could indeed result in the ousting of Saddam Hussein?'
His reply summed up the fears of tens of millions of people. War would destabilise the Middle East and recruit more fanatics to terrorist groups. It would lead to more despots 'pre-emptively arming themselves with all manner of apocalyptic weapons and, perhaps, to Armageddon'. Dorfman also worried about the casualties - which, I guess, were far higher than he imagined - and convinced himself that the right course was to demand that Bush and Blair pull back. Nevertheless, he retained the breadth of mind and generosity of spirit to sign off with 'heaven help me, I am saying that I care more about the future of this sad world than about the future of your unprotected children'.
I don't think any open-minded observer who wasn't caught up in the anger could say that Dorfman was typical. Jose Ramos-Horta, the leader of the struggle for the freedom of East Timor, noticed that at none of the demonstrations in hundreds of cities did you see banners or hear speeches denouncing Saddam Hussein. If this was 'the left' on the march, it was the new left of the 21st century, which had abandoned old notions of camaraderie and internationalism in favour of opposition to the capricious American hegemony. They didn't support fascism, but they didn't oppose it either, and their silence boded ill for the future.
In Saturday, his novel set on the day of the march, Ian McEwan caught the almost frivolous mood: 'All this happiness on display is suspect. Everyone is thrilled to be together out on the streets - people are hugging themselves, it seems, as well as each other. If they think - and they could be right - that continued torture and summary executions, ethnic cleansing and occasional genocide are preferable to an invasion, they should be sombre in their view.'
Most people, myself included, are not like Ariel Dorfman. In moments of political passion, we are single-mindedly and simple-mindedly sure of our righteousness. From the day of the marches on, liberal leftish politicians and intellectuals kept up a vehement and slightly panicky insistence that they were right and their goodness was beyond question.
In fairness to all of those who didn't want to think about the 'occasional genocide' or ask heaven's forgiveness for recommending that the Baath party be left in power, they were right in several respects. The protesters were right to feel that Bush and Blair were manipulating them into war. They weren't necessarily lying, in the lawyerly sense that they were deliberately making up the case for war - nothing that came out in the years afterwards showed that they knew Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction and thought, 'What the hell, we'll pretend he does.'
But they were manipulating the evidence. The post-mortem inquiries in America convicted the US administration of 'collective group think': a self-reinforcing delusion in the White House that shut out contrary information and awkward voices. Lord Butler 's inquiry in Britain showed the Prime Minister turned statements that the Joint Intelligence Committee had hedged with caveats into defi nite warnings of an imminent threat. Before the then Foreign Secretary Robin Cook resigned in protest against the war, he pointed out to Blair that several details in his case that Saddam had chemical weapons couldn't possibly be true. Cook told his special adviser David Mathieson after the meeting that Blair did not know about the detail and didn't seem to want to know either.
'A half truth is a whole lie,' runs the Yiddish proverb, and if democratic leaders are going to take their countries to war, they must be able to level with themselves as well as their electorates. If Blair had levelled with the British people, he would have said that he couldn't be sure if Saddam was armed, and even if he was there was no imminent danger; but here was a chance to remove a disgusting regime and combat the growth in terror by building democracy, and he was going to take it. Instead, he spun and talked about chemical weapons ready to be fired in 45 minutes. If the Labour party had forced Blair to resign, there would have been a rough justice in his political execution.
The war was over soon enough, but the aftermath was a disaster. Generals, diplomats and politicians covered their own backs and stabbed the backs of their colleagues as they piled blame on each other, but for the rest of the world pictures released in 2004 of American guards with pornographic smirks on their faces standing beside the tortured and sexually abused bodies of Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib prison encapsulated their disgust. To those who knew that the Baathists had tens of thousands of people tortured and murdered at Abu Ghraib, the pictures were evidence of sacrilege. It was as if American guards had decided to gas a prisoner in Auschwitz, while their superiors turned a blind eye.
Just as dozens of generals, politicians and diplomats shifted the blame, so journalists and academics produced dozens of books on the troubles of the occupation of Iraq. One point demanded far more attention than it got. Hard-headed and principled Iraqis, who knew all about the ghastly history of their country, failed to understand the appeal of fascism. The y worried about coping with the consequences of totalitarianism when the Baath party was overthrown. They talked about how many people you could reasonably put on trial in a country where the regime had made hundreds of thousands complicit in its crimes against humanity, and wondered about truth and reconciliation commissions and amnesties. They expected the invaders to be met with 'sweets and flowers' and assumed Baathism was dead as a dynamic force. They didn't count on its continuing appeal to the Sunni minority, all too aware that democracy would strip them of their status as Iraq's 'whites'. They didn't wonder what else the servants of the Baath could do if they didn't take up arms: wait around for war crimes trials or revenge from the kin of their victims? Nor did they expect to see Islamist suicide bombers pour into Iraq. Despite vocal assurances from virtually every expert who went on the BBC that such a pact was impossible, Baathists and Islamists formed an alliance against the common enemy of democracy.
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq, wasn't against elections because he was worried they would be rigged or because he couldn't tolerate American involvement in the political process; he was against democracy in all circumstances. It was 'an evil principle', he said, as he declared a 'fierce war' against all those 'apostates' and 'infidels' who wanted to vote in free elections and the 'demi-idols' who wanted to be elected. Democracy was a 'heresy itself', because it allowed men and women to challenge the laws of God with laws made by parliaments. It was based on 'freedom of religion and belief' and 'freedom of speech' and on 'separation of religion and politics'.
He did not mean it as a compliment. His strategy was to terrorise Iraq's Shia majority. To Sunni Islamists they were heretics, or as Zarqawi put it in his charac teristic language, 'the insurmountable obstacle, the lurking snake, the crafty and malicious scorpion, the spying enemy, and the penetrating venom'. Suicide bombers were to murder them until they turned on the Sunni minority. He explained: 'I mean that targeting and hitting them in [their] religious, political, and military depth will provoke them to show the Sunnis their rabies and bare the teeth of the hidden rancour working in their breasts. If we succeed in dragging them into the arena of sectarian war, it will become possible to awaken the inattentive Sunnis as they feel imminent danger and annihilating death.'
Journalists wondered whether the Americans were puffi ng up Zarqawi's role in the violence - as a foreigner he was a convenient enemy - but they couldn't deny the ferocity of the terror. Like Stalin, Pol Pot and Slobodan Milosevic, they went for the professors and technicians who could make a democratic Iraq work. They murdered Sergio Vieira de Mello, one of the United Nations's bravest officials, and his colleagues; Red Cross workers, politicians, journalists and thousands upon thousands of Iraqis who happened to be in the wrong church or Shia mosque.
How hard was it for opponents of the war to be against that? Unbelievably hard, it turned out. The anti-war movement disgraced itself not because it was against the war in Iraq, but because it could not oppose the counter-revolution once the war was over. A principled left that still had life in it and a liberalism that meant what it said might have remained ferociously critical of the American and British governments while offering support to Iraqis who wanted the freedoms they enjoyed.
It is a generalisation to say that everyone refused to commit themselves. The best of the old left in the trade unions and parliamentary Labour party supported an anti-fascist struggle, regardless of whether they were for or against the war, and American Democrats went to fi ght in Iraq and returned to fi ght the Republicans. But again, no one who looked at the liberal left from the outside could pretend that such principled stands were commonplace. The British Liberal Democrats, the continental social democratic parties, the African National Congress and virtually every leftish newspaper and journal on the planet were unable to accept that the struggle of Arabs and Kurds had anything to do with them. Mainstream Muslim organisations were as indifferent to the murder of Muslims by other Muslims in Iraq as in Darfur. For the majority of world opinion, Blair's hopes of 'giving people oppressed, almost enslaved, the prospect of democracy and liberty' counted for nothing.
How the left went beserk
When a war to overthrow Saddam Hussein came, the liberals had two choices. The first was to oppose the war, remain hypercritical of aspects of the Bush administration's policy, but support Iraqis as they struggled to establish a democracy.
The policy of not leaving Iraqis stranded was so clearly the only moral option, it never occurred to me that there could be another choice. I did have an eminent liberal specialist on foreign policy tell me that 'we're just going to have to forget about Saddam's victims', but I thought he was shooting his mouth off in the heat of the moment. From the point of view of the liberals, the only grounds they would have had to concede if they had stuck by their principles in Iraq would have been an acknowledgement that the war had a degree of legitimacy. They would still have been able to say it was catastrophically mismanaged, a provocation to al-Qaeda and all the rest of it. They would still have been able to condemn atrocities by American troops, Guantanamo Bay, and Bush's pushing of the boundaries on torture. They might usefully have linked up with like-minded Iraqis, who wanted international support to fight against the American insistence on privatisation of industries, for instance. All they would have had to accept was that the attempt to build a better Iraq was worthwhile and one to which they could and should make a positive commitment.
A small price to pay; a price all their liberal principles insisted they had a duty to pay. Or so it seemed.
The second choice for the liberals was to do the wrong thing for the right reasons. To look at the Iraqi civilians and the British and American troops who were dying in a war whose central premise had proved to be false, and to go berserk; to allow justifi able anger to propel them into 'binges of posturing and ultra-radicalism' as the Sixties liberals had done when they went off the rails. As one critic characterised the position, they would have to pretend that 'the United States was the problem and Iraq was its problem'. They would have to maintain that the war was not an attempt to break the power of tyranny in a benighted region, but the bloody result of a 'financially driven mania to control Middle Eastern oil, and the faith-driven crusade to batter the crescent with the cross'.
They chose to go berserk.
· Join Nick Cohen in a live online chat about his book at observer.co.uk on Wednesday at 2pm
· What's Left: How Liberals Lost Their Way by Nick Cohen will be published on 5 February by Fourth Estate, £12.99. To order a copy for £11.99 with free UK p&p go to observer.co.uk/bookshop or call 0870 836 0885 _________________ "The rocket bombs which fell daily on London were probably fired by the Government of Oceania itself, 'just to keep people frightened'."
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numeral Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 500 Location: South London
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | In Saturday, his novel set on the day of the march, Ian McEwan caught the almost frivolous mood: 'All this happiness on display is suspect. Everyone is thrilled to be together out on the streets - people are hugging themselves, it seems, as well as each other. If they think - and they could be right - that continued torture and summary executions, ethnic cleansing and occasional genocide are preferable to an invasion, they should be sombre in their view.' |
What we have now as a result of the invasion is an occupation and "continued torture and summary executions, ethnic cleansing and occasional genocide"
I could say much more but this is just a propaganda piece. _________________ Follow the numbers |
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blackcat Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 2376
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Cohen eh? - I wonder what "religion" he is a member of. |
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numeral Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 500 Location: South London
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Read the article:
Quote: | In the early Seventies, my mother searched the supermarkets for politically reputable citrus fruit. She couldn't buy Seville oranges without indirectly subsidising General Francisco Franco, Spain's fascist dictator. Algarve oranges were no good either, because the slightly less gruesome but equally right-wing dictatorship of Antonio Salazar ruled Portugal. She boycotted the piles of Outspan from South Africa as a protest against apartheid, and although neither America nor Israel was a dictatorship, she wouldn't have Florida or Jaffa oranges in the house because she had no time for then President Richard Nixon or the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. |
That is not a religious background. Why have you introduced religion? _________________ Follow the numbers |
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blackbear Validated Poster
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 Posts: 656 Location: up north
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Nick Cohen is an evil man full of hate for muslims. I am sure 650,000 dead in Iraq and all that uranium gives him a warm glow. He would love the same for Iran.
"Times are gone when you could say that Cohen cuts a pathetic figure.
These days he sounds like a case for men in white coats."
Spot
Comment No. 389639
January 21 18:20
" Nick 'he is not Jewish' Cohen is an apologist for the PNAC and the Zionist movement.
The article looks as though it were written by the people at www.giyus.org and, as such, we can expect it to ignore American support for Saddam Hussein (before he got too big for his U.S. boots)."
Nick Cohen is a cheerleader for the present day holocaust against the muslims who happen to live anywhere near Israel.
Read a good forgery....
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/nick_cohen/2007/01/the_world_turne d_upside_down.html |
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rodin Validated Poster
Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 2224 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Post much too long for my boredom threshold so I'll just take a gamble here...
Cohen is a vile POS
F***ing 'left wing' press what a sick joke. There are no wings. They are as fake as inflatable tanks. _________________ Belief is the Enemy of Truth www.dissential.com |
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blackcat Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 2376
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | That is not a religious background. Why have you introduced religion? |
I introduced religion!!? You tell ME to read the article and suggest it is me who has introduced religion. Is Islam not a religion? Is the whole effing article not about how the Muslims are a threat to western society?? I suggest YOU read the article and then wonder about the background and politics of a man who could write such tripe. |
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brian Validated Poster
Joined: 18 Aug 2005 Posts: 611 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Why was this posted in the first place? |
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numeral Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 500 Location: South London
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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blackcat wrote: | Cohen eh? - I wonder what "religion" he is a member of. |
What religion is he a member of? _________________ Follow the numbers |
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wepmob2000 Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Aug 2006 Posts: 431 Location: North East England
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: |
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Well I thought the article was at least quite interesting, and no worse then the endless mind-numbing propaganda cut and pasted by certain people on this thread..... |
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blackcat Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 2376
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | What religion is he a member of? |
I can only guess. He says Muslims are the evil that we must be frightened of and are threatening our very existance and he has a Jewish name. The Muslims are dying in their thousands at the hands of Western armies to the benefit of the state of Israel and there is clearly more to come via Iran and Syria and perhaps more. I can only hazard a guess that he is a Zionist who will sacrifice the last western Goyim to gain his/their mad plan to create a state of Israel as promised by God himself to the "Chosen People". Not that they are racist of course. Indeed it is people who object to their mass murder who are the Racists because they say so and they control all the media. |
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numeral Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 500 Location: South London
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:48 am Post subject: |
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blackcat wrote: | Quote: | What religion is he a member of? |
I can only guess. He says Muslims are the evil that we must be frightened of and are threatening our very existance and he has a Jewish name. The Muslims are dying in their thousands at the hands of Western armies to the benefit of the state of Israel and there is clearly more to come via Iran and Syria and perhaps more. I can only hazard a guess that he is a Zionist who will sacrifice the last western Goyim to gain his/their mad plan to create a state of Israel as promised by God himself to the "Chosen People". Not that they are racist of course. Indeed it is people who object to their mass murder who are the Racists because they say so and they control all the media. |
Why do you post your guesses?
There is ample material in his article to take issue with. Demolish it line by line. There is no need to guess, even if it annoys the hell out of you. It annoys me too. _________________ Follow the numbers |
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wepmob2000 Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Aug 2006 Posts: 431 Location: North East England
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:53 am Post subject: Re: Nick Cohen - anti-Americanism and evils of 'militant Isl |
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Ian wrote: | Why is it that apologies for a militant Islam which stands for everything the liberal left is against come from the liberal left? Why will students hear a leftish postmodern theorist defend the exploitation of women in traditional cultures but not a crusty conservative don?............. intellectuals in particular are ready to excuse the movements of the far right as long as they are anti-Western............. On 15 February 2003 , about a million liberal-minded people marched through London to oppose the overthrow of a fascist regime. It was the biggest protest in British history, but it was dwarfed by the march to oppose the overthrow of a fascist regime in Mussolini's old capital of Rome, where about three million Italians joined what the Guinness Book of Records said was the largest anti-war rally ever. In Madrid, about 650,000 marched to oppose the overthrow of a fascist regime in the biggest demonstration in Spain since the death of General Franco in 1975. In Berlin, the call to oppose the overthrow of a fascist regime brought demonstrators from 300 German towns and cities, some of them old enough to remember when Adolf Hitler ruled from the Reich Chancellery. In Greece, where the previous generation had overthrown a military junta, the police had to fire tear gas at leftists who were so angry at the prospect of a fascist regime being overthrown that they armed themselves with petrol bombs. |
He's completely correct, the whole thing is so hypocritical its untrue. Yes the continuing U.S. occupation of Iraq is now a fiasco, but in theory the idea of ridding the Iraqi people of Saddam was a great one. There's very little to take issue with, its not as if Cohen is justifying some of the abuses that have taken place, he's just highlighting some very real home truths. |
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wepmob2000 Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Aug 2006 Posts: 431 Location: North East England
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Not much to disagree with here either............... Good stuff!!
A man with a score to settle
REVIEWED BY CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS
WHAT'S LEFT? How the Liberals Lost Their Way
by Nick Cohen
Fourth Estate £12.99 pp296
It is not until quite near the end of this mordant and instructive polemic that Nick Cohen comes right out with his own confession: “My instant reaction to the 9/11 attacks was that they were a nuisance that got in the way of more pressing concerns. Throughout the 1990s, I had been writing about the overweening power of big business and how it could corrupt democratic governments. I had lambasted new Labour for its love of conservative crime policies and attacks on civil liberties for years. Attacking Tony Blair was what I liked doing — what got me out of bed in the morning. Accepting that fascism is worse than western democracy, even western democracies governed by George W Bush and Tony Blair, sounds very easy in theory, but it is very difficult to do in practice when you are a habitual enemy of the status quo in your own country.”
He might have left it at this. After all, there are thousands and thousands of middle-aged lefties for whom their once-revolutionary “credentials” are all they have left to show for a lifetime of “activism”, and who could not face their friends — or, perhaps, their students — if they found themselves endorsing a war fought by British or American soldiers. (I myself remember repressing a twinge of annoyance at the idea that the assault on civilisation represented by the 9/11 attacks would drive my anti-Kissinger book from the front page where I still believe it belonged.) But Cohen goes further: “I wanted anything associated with Tony Blair to fail, because that would allow me to return to the easy life of attacking him.”
It is this sentence, and its implications, that make his book an exceptional and necessary one. Cohen has no problem with those who are upset about state-sponsored exaggerations of the causes of war, or furious about the bungled occupation of Iraq that has ensued. People who think this is the problem are not his problem. Here’s his problem: the people who would die before they would applaud the squaddies and grunts who removed hideous regimes from Afghanistan and Iraq, yet who happily describe Islamist video-butchers and suicide-murderers as a “resistance”. Those who do this are not “anti-war” at all, but are shadily taking the other side in a conflict where the moral and civilisational stakes are extremely high.
There are two possible sorts of “left” reaction to a dilemma like this. One is to seek out the democratic and secular forces in the Muslim world — the Kurdish revolutionaries in Iraq, say, or the Afghan women’s movement — and to offer them your solidarity whether Bush or Blair will do so or not. (Some things, as Orwell wrote, are true even if The Daily Telegraph says they are true.) The other is to say that globalisation is the main enemy, and that, therefore, any enemy of that enemy is a friend. In this twisted mental universe, even a medievalist jihad is better than no struggle at all. Cohen has decided to adopt the first position, and to anatomise and ridicule the second one. The result is an exemplary piece of political satire, in which the generally amusing and ironic tone should not lull you into ignoring the deadly seriousness of the argument.
It is not absolutely necessary to have a personal stake in a discussion like this, but it does help. Cohen started out trying to defend the honour of the left, and attempting to appeal to its better traditions. He swiftly found that this made him the target of the most hysterical slander, from people whose hatred of liberal democracy has a long and sordid ancestry. He then lowered his head, clenched his teeth, steered into the storm and embarked on the toughest struggle an old leftist can ever undertake: a confrontation with former comrades who suspect him of “selling out”. What probably began as a long essay has now metamorphosed into a full-scale settling of accounts.
It’s all here: from the pseudo-radicals who said there was nothing to choose between Nazi imperialism in Europe and British rule in India, through the supporters of the Hitler-Stalin pact, all the way to those who defended Slobodan Milosevic as a socialist and those who took, quite literally took, money from the bloody hands of Saddam Hussein. Just in the past decade or so, had this “anti-war” rabble had its way, we would have seen Kuwait stay part of Iraq, Bosnia and Kosovo cleansed and annexed by “Greater” Serbia, and the Taliban retaining control of Afghanistan. You might think that such a record would lead its adherents to be dismissed as a silly and sinister fringe, but instead it is they who pose as the principled radicals and their opponents who are treated with unconcealed disdain in the universities and on the BBC.
This betrayal (because there is no other word for it) has been made possible in part by a degraded version of multiculturalism. The hard left has junked its historic secularism, to say nothing of its principles of equality for females and homosexuals, to make common cause with Muslim outfits some of which are associated in other countries with the extreme right. It has done this by the use of nonsense terms such as “Islamophobia”, which are designed to give the no-less nonsensical impression that Islam is some kind of persecuted ethnicity. But the vile attacks by Islamists on the Jews (Britain’s oldest minority) and on India (Britain’s most important democratic ally after the United States) show the truly reactionary and hateful character of the opportunist alliance between failed ex-Stalinists and fanatical theocrats. For Cohen, as for some others of us, this is no longer a difference of emphasis within the family of the left. It is the adamant line of division in a bitter fight against a new form of fascism, at home no less than abroad.
I think he is right to identify the opening of this crisis with the events in Bosnia and Kosovo, because in that instance it was America (pushed by the supposed “poodle” Blair) that used force to prevent the annihilation of a Muslim community. Those who opposed that rescue operation, and who yet denounce the fight against Bin-Ladenism and its allies as “targeting” Muslims, have given the game away and shown that they hate only Anglo-American policy, to a degree that results in blindness. Meanwhile, Israel is always and everywhere to be denounced (and not always wrongly) while the other product of British partition policy during 1947-48, the part-rogue and part-failed state named Pakistan, is never indicted in the same way for its numberless bigotries and aggressions. This is bad faith, and needs to be unmasked as such. Cohen’s book is an admirable example of self- criticism and self-examination, using intellectual honesty as a means of illuminating a much wider canvas.
Do not feel that you have to be a leftist or liberal to read it, because it engages with an argument that is crucial for all of us, and for our time.
Odd bedfellows
In one telling example, Cohen cites the work of Iranian feminist Azar Nafisi, who three years ago dedicated her book Reading Lolita in Tehran to Paul Wolfowitz. “By 2003 it was no longer surprising that an Iranian feminist should turn to an American neoconservative,” Cohen writes pointedly, “for where else was she to look for support?” |
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numeral Validated Poster
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 500 Location: South London
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Nick Cohen - anti-Americanism and evils of 'militant Isl |
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wepmob2000 wrote: |
He's completely correct, the whole thing is so hypocritical its untrue. Yes the continuing U.S. occupation of Iraq is now a fiasco, but in theory the idea of ridding the Iraqi people of Saddam was a great one. There's very little to take issue with, its not as if Cohen is justifying some of the abuses that have taken place, he's just highlighting some very real home truths. |
Having a bit of memory trouble, wepmob? WMD, anyone? The idea that that act of aggression, the supreme war crime, was in any way for the benefit of the Iraqi people is for teletubbies only. _________________ Follow the numbers |
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blackcat Validated Poster
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 2376
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | The idea that that act of aggression, the supreme war crime, was in any way for the benefit of the Iraqi people is for teletubbies only. |
Is that your guess? Anyone can post guesses as you say just like anyone can play semantics. I guess means I conclude or I deduce in the context I used it and is commonly used as such. But I think you knew that all along. |
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conspiracy analyst Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:12 am Post subject: |
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numeral wrote: | blackcat wrote: | Cohen eh? - I wonder what "religion" he is a member of. |
What religion is he a member of? |
The neocon one. It starts with $$$$$ ends with Iraqui blood.
There is no other religion than the $$$$$.
Thats what being a paid journalistic whore is all about.
What can you write in the 'best' possible manner to justify the USA's new world order. |
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rodin Validated Poster
Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 2224 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: |
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wepmob wrote
Quote: | In one telling example, Cohen cites the work of Iranian feminist Azar Nafisi, who three years ago dedicated her book Reading Lolita in Tehran to Paul Wolfowitz. “By 2003 it was no longer surprising that an Iranian feminist should turn to an American neoconservative,” Cohen writes pointedly, “for where else was she to look for support?” |
Azar Nafisi
http://www.meforum.org/article/542
Lolita
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita
Nabokov
http://www.booksfactory.com/writers/nabokov.htm
Quote: |
In 1937, Nabokov and his family left Berlin for Paris due to their disgust with the Nazi regime and Mrs. Nabokov's Jewish heritage |
Quote: | The American publication of Lolita in 1958 (it had been published in Paris in 1955, but was considered unfit for the USA and UK) brought him instant notoriety and considerable wealth. Lolita, which was filmed first time in 1962 and directed by Stanley Kubrick, is a brilliantly detailed, unconventional story, and one of the most controversial novels of this century. The story, dealing with the desire of a middle-aged pedophile Humbert Humbert for a sexually precocious 12-year-old girl |
A perspective of Iran
http://conflictiran.blogspot.com/2006/04/inside-iran-city-life.html
Meanwhile in Iraq
http://judicial-inc.biz/rape_of_baghdad_museum.htm
http://judicial-inc.biz/k..illing_civilians.htm
http://judicial-inc.biz/s,eventy_five_killed_at_baghdad_u.htm
Where would you rather be?
Beware the ...isms _________________ Belief is the Enemy of Truth www.dissential.com |
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wepmob2000 Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Aug 2006 Posts: 431 Location: North East England
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Nick Cohen - anti-Americanism and evils of 'militant Isl |
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numeral wrote: | wepmob2000 wrote: |
He's completely correct, the whole thing is so hypocritical its untrue. Yes the continuing U.S. occupation of Iraq is now a fiasco, but in theory the idea of ridding the Iraqi people of Saddam was a great one. There's very little to take issue with, its not as if Cohen is justifying some of the abuses that have taken place, he's just highlighting some very real home truths. |
Having a bit of memory trouble, wepmob? WMD, anyone? The idea that that act of aggression, the supreme war crime, was in any way for the benefit of the Iraqi people is for teletubbies only. |
So the Iraqi's wouldn't have benefitted if a democratic government had managed to install itself? Is this the "supreme war crime" of all time, how does it compare in the league of war crimes with the Iraqi invasion of Iran or Kuwait, or the supression of the Shia uprising. Does U.S led aggression automatically confer a 10 point advantage in the league table? Yes probably a bit of memory trouble on my part, I forgot about kindly Uncle Saddam, the non embezzling, torturing, murdering benevolent saviour of Iraq, my mistake..........
Despite the less savoury aspects of the occupation, in theory the invasion of Iraq offered quite a few potential benefits to the Iraqi populace, not least of which was deliverence from Saddam's tyranny (although this was probably far from uppermost in the minds of the PTB). You can't have it both ways, either all the regimes involved in this conflict are murderous tyrannies (a view I subscribe to), or none are. A tyranny doesn't stop being so because the U.S and Britain decide to attack it, and we, the U.S and Israel aren't the only possessors of vile regimes. Nor is tyranny worsened because it is instigated by Zionists. The point made in the article about Pakistan is a very valid one. To suggest otherwise is hyposcrisy of the highest order............. |
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wepmob2000 Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Aug 2006 Posts: 431 Location: North East England
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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rodin wrote: | wepmob wrote
Quote: | In one telling example, Cohen cites the work of Iranian feminist Azar Nafisi, who three years ago dedicated her book Reading Lolita in Tehran to Paul Wolfowitz. “By 2003 it was no longer surprising that an Iranian feminist should turn to an American neoconservative,” Cohen writes pointedly, “for where else was she to look for support?” |
Azar Nafisi
http://www.meforum.org/article/542
Lolita
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita
Nabokov
http://www.booksfactory.com/writers/nabokov.htm
Quote: |
In 1937, Nabokov and his family left Berlin for Paris due to their disgust with the Nazi regime and Mrs. Nabokov's Jewish heritage |
Quote: | The American publication of Lolita in 1958 (it had been published in Paris in 1955, but was considered unfit for the USA and UK) brought him instant notoriety and considerable wealth. Lolita, which was filmed first time in 1962 and directed by Stanley Kubrick, is a brilliantly detailed, unconventional story, and one of the most controversial novels of this century. The story, dealing with the desire of a middle-aged pedophile Humbert Humbert for a sexually precocious 12-year-old girl |
A perspective of Iran
http://conflictiran.blogspot.com/2006/04/inside-iran-city-life.html
Meanwhile in Iraq
http://judicial-inc.biz/rape_of_baghdad_museum.htm
http://judicial-inc.biz/k..illing_civilians.htm
http://judicial-inc.biz/s,eventy_five_killed_at_baghdad_u.htm
Where would you rather be?
Beware the ...isms |
Evidence or propaganda in those weblinks, you decide...... One question occurs to me however, if the rise of communism was a Zionist plot, of which the killing of the killing of the intelligentsia in revolutionary Russia was an integral part..... why did Soviet Russia expend so much time and energy assisting the enemies of Israel, I.E: Egypt, Syria, Lybia, etc? Was it not Soviet weapons that helped the Arabs nearly win the Yom Kippur war? Or their training and expertise? Why would Soviet Zionists, from the 1950's onwards seek to help destroy the Zionist state? Why did the Soviets stop Czech arms exports to Israel in 1949, when at the time Czechoslovakia was the sole legitimate supplier?
Why did the Russian Zionists seek to establish a diametrically opposite regime to those of the West, when in these theories, Zionists already had control of the West? Theres so many holes it could all be Swiss cheese.... |
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rodin Validated Poster
Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 2224 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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wepmob2000 wrote: | Evidence or propaganda in those weblinks, you decide...... One question occurs to me however, if the rise of communism was a Zionist plot, of which the killing of the killing of the intelligentsia in revolutionary Russia was an integral part..... why did Soviet Russia expend so much time and energy assisting the enemies of Israel, I.E: Egypt, Syria, Lybia, etc? Was it not Soviet weapons that helped the Arabs nearly win the Yom Kippur war? Or their training and expertise? Why would Soviet Zionists, from the 1950's onwards seek to help destroy the Zionist state? Why did the Soviets stop Czech arms exports to Israel in 1949, when at the time Czechoslovakia was the sole legitimate supplier?
Why did the Russian Zionists seek to establish a diametrically opposite regime to those of the West, when in these theories, Zionists already had control of the West? Theres so many holes it could all be Swiss cheese.... |
Rothschild made his fortune arming both sides, and ensuring that both victor and vanquished ended up straddled in debt (yep that ole biblical 'usury'). Already fabulously wealthy, the dynasty moved up an order of magnitude after the battle of Waterloo. Two of Meyer's 5 sons financed France & England. After Waterloo Nathan compounded the felony by perfroming a sting on the London Stock Exchange, effectively buying Britain for pennies to the pound. We have a national debt from that war that still pays interests to them I believe. It can never be repaid unless we give up the protection racket of private money creation.
So why did the same group create the cold war? Same reason as they created WW1 and WW2. And the Great Depression. It transfers wealth from us to them (wealth, unlike money, is not open to counterfieting).
In fact all taxation, education, health, social programs are all designed to extract wealth from us to them. It is one huge f***ing scam and not 1 in 100,000 can see it, even though it is plain as the nose on your face. Every day now 100 Iraqis get massacred. The killing rate is getting up to Stalinist levels. We know the leaders of Russian communism were Jewish. They changed their names. Why? WHY?
'By deception thou shalt do war'
Henry Ford was convinced The Protocols of Zion were real. Jews say they are a forgery. Some say they written by a Rothschild himself. Certainly they segue well with 'the Rothschild Formula'. Also, what was written in them has mostly come to pass.
The Talmud (and the old testament) has horrific stuff in it. The horrors, because they are in 'holy books', are justified in the eyes of Jews. Not just Zionists, but Jews. Zionists are a relatively recent scam - invented with the single purpose of getting into the ME where oil had just been discovered.
Google 'Benjamin Freedman' and 'Myron Fagan' for the thoughts of Jews who broke out of the program. Henry Makow is pretty good too. Jews are people just like us really, but their religion has indoctrinated them in the same way as our 'public servants' get delusions about their importance (and of course back-handers) from becoming Freemasons.
You see, for Talmudic Jews and Freemasons, the end justifies the means.
I'll leave out pedophilia etc (which seems to run rife in political circles and is allowed in the Talmud) for others to comment on.
I wrote to the Jews in NY who oppose Zionism. All very well. The reply I got assured me the holocaust happened as written (impossible BTW). More worryingly, they also follow the Talmud. Now I don't read Hebrew, so I rely on the internet for interpretations of the Talmud. But I see passages quoted which I think are in there right enough.
All in all it REEKS of psychological and hypnotic control. I am sure this is what the 'occult' is. At least I hope it is....
_________________ Belief is the Enemy of Truth www.dissential.com |
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wepmob2000 Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Aug 2006 Posts: 431 Location: North East England
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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You do have some valid points. To exemplify, World War One was undoubtedly a war fought by the poor that made the rich richer. U.S corporations made $16 billion profit as a direct result of the war. This was shared by a mere 21,000 people, and those figures are in 1918 values!!!
Similarly theres little doubt that subsequent wars have had similarly beneficial effects for the fortunate few. The proportion of Jews in this group however is less well defined, and I do find it somewhat disingenuous to pin everything upon them. Ethnically many might have been (as in fact are a huge number of people, depending upon your definition), but its a little like referring to the 'Christian' Bush or the 'Muslim' Abu Hamza.
Perhaps a better way to look at it would be as a cabal of powerful people who happen to be of Jewish origins (at least as defined under the Nuremburg laws). This could similarly be said of the leading Russian Bolsheviks; Kamenev, Zinoviev, Stalin, Trotsky, and Lenin. Of them four had at least some some Jewish ethnicity, of which three of that four had a secular upbringing. Their revolutionary ideas ran counter-current to those of the Zionist Capitalist cabal, and the role of Zionism in the Russian revolution is to say the least overstated.
The true motives of some of the sites you link to are suspect to say the least, and I would urge you to closely examine all sources. Nick Cohen is essentially correct in his analysis, when he points out the hypocrisy underpinning many 'revisionist' viewpoints. I think Ian neal beautifully summed up an ideal standpoint in another thread (the one in reply to Ifthikar).
Last edited by wepmob2000 on Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rodin Validated Poster
Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 2224 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Though I quote from Judicial-Inc and find the posts intriguing to say the least, I am keeping a critical eye on the house journalist. Just as I expect truth seekers to keep an eye on me.
I want us to survive. I want us to shake off the yoke of usury and corruption. I want a free, just society. If Jews want to help they are welcome. More than.
But no more by way of deception please. With the internet on fire it will be found out. This, my friends, is the REAL enlightment. _________________ Belief is the Enemy of Truth www.dissential.com |
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wepmob2000 Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 03 Aug 2006 Posts: 431 Location: North East England
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:35 am Post subject: |
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rodin wrote: | I want us to survive. I want us to shake off the yoke of usury and corruption. I want a free, just society. If Jews want to help they are welcome. More than. |
You and me both, our interpretations may differ at times, but we're reading from the same page. |
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andyb Validated Poster
Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 1025 Location: SW London
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: |
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I got through about half of this last night. it was a big article and wound me up a bit. He seems completely blinded to how fascist America has become. Sure Saddam wasn't an angel but how can not supporting an illegal invasion that has gone as bad,if not worse,than we could have imagined be classed as pro-fascist. The difference between the yanks and the 'rogue' states is their vilification in the corporate owned media where Mr Cohen is plying his trade. _________________ "We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people.” Martin Luther King |
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