Liverpool Event - Standing Room Only

[ComfortablyNumb]

The Liverpool Truth Movement hit the ground running last night with a standing room only attendance. That’s if you could find the room to stand!

pictures:
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=6669

Merseyside Truth was kicked off with a video collage of clips from 911 Mysteries, Loose Change and Alex Jones to a 200+ audience. This set the scene for Anne Machon who gave an eloquent and heart-felt rallying cry for us to spread the word about 9/11 and 7/7 falsehoods that are being fed to us by government and their media accomplices.

David Shayler was a commanding speaker. He gave a clear account of his time in Mi5 and the events that lead him to become a whistleblower, seeking ‘exile’ in France and his subsequent arrest by the British.

9/11 and 7/7 were obviously covered. This was in the form of a general overview of the key elements. I am sure David’s presentation gave little room for doubt. The cheers and standing ovation at the end of his presentation is clear testament that the message got through, loud and clear.

It would be dishonest not to mention the audience questions. A physics graduate challenged David’s position on the ill-fated ‘No Planes Theory’. This was the only time he looked weak in his argument. His response was that in his opinion, photographic evidence does not support planes hitting the twin towers. Anne interjected saying she didn’t agree with his position on this. The feeling in the audience amongst the initiated was that the NPT was a non-flyer.

Was David still in the pay of his past masters? He categorically denied it. Many would say, “He would say that!” But how can it be proved either way? You can’t win that one.

A poignant moment came when we had a member of the audience give a short reflection of his involvement in 9/11. He was an American, brought up in the Bronx, but living in Liverpool. He was respectfully sceptical of there being a conspiracy. He lost family and friends in the towers that day and it was a timely reminder that a huge human price was paid.

The organisers of the event will say themselves that they were caught out by the success of the night. But they must be congratulated for their tenacity in making this event possible with an excellent publicity campaign.

Merseyside Truth is on the map, I’m sure it will go from strength to strength.

[Pikey]

Thanx for that CN! Fabulous postive news and well done ALL who made it possible.

[Banish]

Do you include this "plane" when casting aspersions on the NPT?

http://www.positiontoknow.com/S-11/vid/wtc2-p.mpeg



Besides that, that's excellent news from L'pool. Well done!

[uselesseater]

Great Stuff. Let's hope plenty of the attendees will now act on what they have seen.

[Stephen]

[Light Infantree]

..and throughout the universe ripples of truth began to lap in the sure of certainty.

Well done Liverpool. Carry the light.

[ComfortablyNumb]

[Stephen]

[GodSaveTheTeam]

Thanks to everyone for their help in well and truly setting up the Merseyside Truth forum.

We now have a good foundation of creative, committed, generous, inventive, truth - motivated, politically - driven, well informed people who can share resources and ideas in the future to create more events of this kind.

In just two weeks and two meetings, we managed to create and widely circulate a flyer, create and screen a documentary, create incredible press and media attention, and get at least 200 people to group together and think about making a difference in the world.

Thanks go to you all. Ayem,Gary,Rob,Josh,Leon,Daz,Bob,Miai,Tony,Mike,Stephen and everyone
else who I may not have mentioned due to a head in the clouds sense of amazememt at just how well it went and how popular the idea of a local movement of this kind really is.

Thanks are also due to Annie and David of course for their attendance and excellent contribution.

The event was filmed and will soon be available on you tube. Watch this space.

I'd also like to thank David Boyle. What a trooper. He raised £180 for the group. After venue expenses and a contribution to our guests we have £60 kitty for future events . This could go towards another..BIGGER...venue perhaps. Probably a good idea. . I also managed to get a good list of e-mail addresses from a lot of those who atteneded. This will be used as an audience database for future events.

Over all this was an experiment. We are learning. Lessons were indeed learned.

We should all be proud of what was achieved and continue to project in to the future for more events.

Thank you all.

Lee and Rosie.

[AYEM]

Thanks to Stephen Bamber - for making this event happen. It was due to his one-man effort and tireless campaign of constant distribution of leaflets, thoughout Liverpool and the Wirral - that finally made this event happen.

He too, who passed and distributed a book around the audinece (captive audience, whilst speakers were on) asking people to list their email addresses and contact details for creating a data-base for future events. This was ESSENTIAL and as he said at the end of the night - It means that we no longer have to rely upon the media to raise awareness for future meetings and events.

I'm going to contact Ian Crain - the chairman of the 9/11 group to see if we can get him to come up to Liverpool in the near future to do a talk.

Thanks again to Stephen Bamber.


Ayem.

[Pikey]

Yeah, well done Stephen Bamber, we all have a part to play in "sowing seeds" of 911 truth.

Nice one Ayem we do need to support, help, advise and encourage each other and especially work together. Remember its not about the messenger its about the message.

I would strongly recommend you facilitating a Liverpool event with our current Chair, Ian Crane.

What about Willie Rodrigez in Liverpool though? Its a tremendous 911 truth opportunity ! could TEAM Liverpool/Wirral pull it off at the eleventh hour? ...... after such a great start with your first event?

Who cares wins!

[Pikey]

Dooh!!! double clicked!

[GodSaveTheTeam]

Thanks Pikey.
It sure is important to remember that this was a group effort and everyone had their part to play.

I also think that the team should meet up again before we establish anything concrete in terms of planning the next event. Perhaps a democratic suggestion and voting format would be best.

What do members of the group think about that?

[Annie]

[outsider]

[ComfortablyNumb]

[Stephen]

What about Willie Rodrigez in Liverpool though? Its a tremendous 911 truth opportunity ! could TEAM Liverpool/Wirral pull it off at the eleventh hour? ...... after such a great start with your first event?
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------
I agree with Pikey, Merseyside Truth Group should get Willie Rodrigez to come and talk about his experence and Reserch on 9-11, I'm sure he would Love to come to Liverpool.

If you don't book the man he want come

[AYEM]

I had already explored this idea for his tour of speaking dates here in the U.K in Feb - but I discovered, after speaking with Annie two weeks ago, that he only has ONE rest day - After Lancaster and before Scotland. this would have been ideal for Merseyside - but simply isn't possible on this tour.

Next time he's here in the U.K we should ask him to come and speak in Liverpool.

Ayem.

[Pikey]

[RespectfullyMyPointIs]

Tthanks for trying to further 911 truth.
These are my thoughts read them see what you think.
On youtube do you have the permission of the crowd to broadcast their face? I thought you needed to be careful unless you had the defence of public interest , could you blur the bits where you pan to the crowd.
Could we film the crowd from the back only?. People who have a reputation and may not like being filmed.
To win the war of the truth of 911 we need influential people to take interest, fringe groups can get hijacked by government agents?
Shayler himself apparently has a previous career in counter subversion maybe he could advise us? I'm not so comfortable with his talk about no planes but I think the controlled demolition is very hard to disprove from this thing.
WTC1 and 2 and 7 drop in freefall time.
Press the US government to explain that in terms of pancake theory ,
They won’t . Jeremy PAXMAN them till they try,
They still won’t….. they can’t.......its against the laws of physics
Law for falling objects in a vacuum near the surface of planet earth
A feather or a bus falls at the same linearly accelerating speed of 9.81 metres per second per second.
If feather or bus fall off the roof of the WTC at the same time
after 1 second both have reached a speed of 9.8 metres per second
after 2 seconds they’ve reached 19.6 metres per second
after 3 seconds 28.6 m/s etc
each second add 9.8 m/s etc for however long you fall.
They both hit the ground together.
Height to the roof of WTC is 417 metres .
At T=0 Feather + Bus start the fall they start with speed 0m/s
at the end of that first second of time Feather + Bus have reached a speed of
9.8 m/s
In a vacuum this is a law of the planet.
WTC fall Feather+Bus
average speed over that first second was 4.9m/s
(started 0m/s ended 9.8m/s easy for linear acceleration I think. subtract end speed from start and half it and add to the start speed, yep 4.9 m/s )
So in the first second Feather and Bus travelled 4.9metres
They started at
T= 0 seconds with zero speed by T=1 seconds they had travelled 4.9meters but had now accelerated to 9.8m/s
Because they are accelerating at 9.8 m/s feather bus finish the second second travelling at 19.62m/s the average speed over that second was 14.7
T=1 start speed = 0 end speed=9.8 further distance travelled = 4.9 Total distance= 4.9
T=2 =9.8 19.6 =14.7 total distance = 21.8
19.6 29.4 =24.5 total distance= 46.3
29.4 39.2 =34.3 total distance= 80.6
39.2 49 =44.1 total distance= 124.7
49 58.8 =53.9 total distance = 178.6
58.8 68.6 =63.7 total distance = 242.3
68.6 78.4 =73.5 total distance = 315
78.4 88.2 =83.3 total dist = 399.1metres
After falling of the WTC roof, Feather and Bus would hit the ground after 9 and a bit seconds.
All that maths is for Feather and Bus in a vacuum, of course it would be much slower in air due to air resistance. But Feather and Bus would be much slower still if they had to crash through a few floors don’t you think??
Go figure my freefall maths and pancake collapse.
This math backs up loose change.
911 truth should be above reproach and must respect the sensitivities of families directly touched. We must be careful of people debunking Rodriguez he heard an explosion from the basement first, and then another explosion from above. Is this because sound travels at different speeds in a building like lightning flashes and crashes
These fantasy theories don't help 911 truth
The NWO will get worried if we stay right on target.
The people links, Bush Bin Laden etc deserve rigorous investigation to cut through any infoconfusion generated by agencies.

[GodSaveTheTeam]

Respect...etc

Respectfully I will say this...

Firstly I'm replying to you because you obviously want attention. You have posted the same post on two threads, the second coming after a gap of a few days which means you've been watching, waiting for some kind of reply.

Here is mine.

Can I ask you if you were at the Liverpool event? Your riddle filled post is full of references to Liverpool and Shayler and the filming of it but, and
forgive me if I missed it, you don't say if you were there or not.

The reason I ask is because of the point you make about the crowd being filmed. Now I don't know about you, but I've seen a lot of videos on Google and Youtube and more often than not passers by or peripheral people end up in the videos sometimes. I haven't yet heard of anyone suing the film makers.

If some people take offence (if they ever see themselves that is) I'm sure they will contact the film makers and dialogue will begin between the two parties. Most people like to see themselves on Tv as it were. As far as I'm aware no close ups were made and the film makers are probably aware of the laws regarding the points you make.

I'm not sure about the law on public screenings but if anyone there is in
danger of having their reputations compromised then...why did they turn up? It was clear that the event was being filmed, if they were so in danger then they would probably have just left.

Even if it were to come out that they were there...they were only at a film screening and a talk! Even with the encroaching Police State I believe that this is still legal. They may not have been there to lend credence to the theories we put forward. They may have been there to criticise the movement. This is their fundamental right and if anyone tries to prosecute them or take any other action against them for simply attending the event, I'm sure we'll win not only a couple more converts as a result but also some great press coverage.

I didn't film the event but I'll be in contact with those that did and voice your concern. I hope they will take my stance and be defiant when it comes to airing the video as it was shot. Those that attended left a long list of email addresses at the end of the event. This would not seem like the actions of those that would want to distance themselves or remain anonymous.

Your comments about Roderiguez's evidence of explosions beneath him may or may not be true but Willie is not the only witness to the basement explosions.Phillip Morelli, a construction worker, mentions a secondary explosion in the North Tower. He states that it was after the plane impact(which coincides with him being 'blown' to the floor)There are also people that say that they reached the lower parts of the building when there was another explosion.Then there's the damage to the lobby. Also, Willie mentions a guy called Phillip David that ran into an area where Willie was saying "explosion,explosion". His face was all burnt. Would your vibration theory have caused his injuries?

In the end you say our evidence must be watertight. No evidence is ever watertight. That's why there are Juries. That's why sometimes people get away with things or get punished for things they didn't do.

At this stage in the Truth Movement we still have a vast majority of people to "wake up". This is still the movement's main concern before we can raise enough of a stink in my opinion.Therefore any evidence at this stage is worth listening to.Apart from the less credible npt and beams of course. But they were listened to before being refuted.

William Roderiguez was in one of the buildings. Are you saying his testimony (which can be used in court) isn't credible and therefore we should ignore it? That would be a highly dubious statement to make in my opinion and questions your own credibility and intentions here.His evidence was omitted from the Keane commission. Why? Surely that fact gives it some weight as evidence for our cause. Why would they omit it if it was weak evidence?

You say that we shouldn't be trying to get "crusty old whackos" like yourself involved.That would sound like another dubious statement. Why exclude anyone. Are you saying that the more difficult people to get involved are the only ones worth recruiting? This would sound like a 'stop before you start' type statement. Very suspect. Anyone alive is totally free to join this movement. All types from all walks BARR NONE.

Your point about needing to recruit more "professional types" is taken. But how do you know the types you mention...policemen, teachers,lawyers, scientists weren't actually in our audience? As I said we have a good email list. Chances are there were some actually present. I know for a fact that there was a teacher there because I talked to one at length.One of our members is friends with a lawyer who is interested in future events.

You appear to make a scaremongering type comment about how 'communications are being funnelled' to one place.I.e. a Governmental building where surveillance is carried out. Given your numerous connections, Kissinger,Brown etc, it would seem that your presence here would be easily detected and noted by the authorities. Afterall someone who could lend such self proclaimed credibility to the movement would be first on the list of "sudden deaths" so to speak. Not bob down the road who's into conspiracies. Are you risking detection or do you have a 'blocking' strategy? If you do, what is it? Surely it would help the movement. Or are you here to sabotage?

Your comments seem as though they're supposed to scare us or be something we haven't thought about in our efforts before. That's one of the reasons we are doing this. Because of the ever growing surveillance state we are seeing constructed around us. It is integral to be in this movement and be "watched". It is dangerous, granted. We are fully aware of the extent that the criminals will go to to stop being punished. But we must have courage. Courage to gather and share the watertight evidence you say is so necessary. Courage is probably more important than anything against tyranny.

You kind of ridicule Shayler's occult "Bus registration plate" comment. 7,7,5 being the number therein. I find the occult aspect to the New World Order very intriguing and in some cases newcomers will be attracted to the movement through this aspect first of all.He did not talk at length about the occult aspects involved, it was in passing. A dramatic sidenote if you like. No one got up and left or shouted "ridiculous" or "nutter"

You ask if we are serious or just having fun with this movement. Well, I would also like to ask that question to you. You make several references to various things in your post which can only be described as attempts at humour. The Inspector Clousseau comment, the Carol Vorderman comment, infact you yourself say you're just having a laugh.Confusing behaviour to say the least!?Are we supposed to take you seriously?

I mean you even make some strange cryptic suggestions that you're some kind of agent, then you say you're not, then you say you'd sell out for the right offer and we're supposed to take you seriously? After all that you even go on to question Shaylers credibilty! I mean the nerve. At least we know Shayler is an ex-agent.

If what you say is true about your history, meeting Kissinger, Brown etc then you would make a great asset to our cause.Are you willing to step forward like Meacher, Shayler, Tony Benn who I'm sure, like you has met Brown. If you are not willing to step forward then what are you willing to offer, other than your riddles and scientific conjecture and things we are already aware of?

Respectfully of course.

GSTT.

[RespectfullyMyPointIs]

Are peripheral people really the same as those in the crowd making floor points?.
It might make a difference if it was gauranteed it wasn't filmed more people might come. If it is aired without pixelling the crowd and floor speakers maybe you might compromise them.
I mention that one bit of Rodriguez testimony because it has been questioned on the web. Good science is hard to argue with??
RespectfullyMyPointIs

[Light Infantree]

cup of tea anyone?

[GodSaveTheTeam]

Respectfully...

Hello again.

Looking at a few of your points in your reply to my reply...

I understand that some recognisable people may not want to be filmed at Truth events. If you or anyone you know want to attend any in the future tell the organisers of the event that you don't want to be included in the final cut and I will make sure your requests are adhered to as I'm sure they will be by other organisers of events in other cities.We would all want to make sure that you attend rather than not...but...

If they're already a recognisable face...what real difference does it make? I mean ok, they wont get put up on you tube,but the film they are included in will only get maybe 500 views, tops!. The Leeds event last year (which doesn't come up in a '9/11 truth event' search on Youtube) which also featured Annie and David has had 260 views on Google video.Not enough to cause any real potentially dangerous exposure wouldn't you say?

Even the big 'Symposium' gig that Alex Jones and others held last year(which includes sweeping shots of the audience) and coincided with the last 'peak' of the Movement's interest has only had 5467 views....so in each case a very very - very small percentage of each country will have become aware of the actual event through internet video alone, never mind of who attended.It would seem that you wouldn't be forever 'related to a radical group' in this way aferall.

Ok, you could say "yeah, but what if they call the film 'Respectfullymypointis' (or your real famous name...) attends 9/11 truth meeting', then more people will see me and my life is ruined and in danger!!!" Well, if you're that well known your attendance itself will cause just as much of a stir!

Therefore you would have to say that probably just as many people if not more would be aware of your attendance through word of mouth alone after the event. Depending on how 'well known you are' of course. You know what folk are like...they gossip.

So you'd have to say that it would probably be best to have your 'potentially dangerous' contribution to the event on the record so to speak. Then you wouldn't be misquoted or taken out of context.

Also, if the powers that be, who would learn of your attendance either way, want to bump you off, there would be some kind of documented evidence as to why you didn't 'die of natural causes' afterall.

Lets face it, if you attend at all, you run the same risk even if you're filmed or not filmed....that is, in your own overview of such matters.

I guess it depends on how famous you are. If you're really well known, whose to say the owners of the venue wont sell the cctv footage of you? Or whose to say that, even though the 'film recordists' are on strict instructions not to film the crowd, one of the crowd members wont? with a surreptitiously placed camera? Or a mobile! Or any easily concealed device for recording audio. I mean, you are never going to totally safeguard against your affiliation with the Movement if you're famous...and you join it.
Whose to say you wont get blackmailed by someone who knows you are desperate to keep your attendance hush - hush?

If you are famous yourself then as I said, you are already running the risk of being associated with the Movement right now. There are obviously 'agents' monitoring this site. Your IP number is easily traced.In fact as you've said yourself there are going to be agents at the events undercover, so as far as 'Them' finding out about your attendance through film, well they've already seen you.


As for your points about the movement being dismissed in Parliament if "Ickian" type occult info was raised there to gain attention to the movement. Well, I would hope the MP in question wouldn't do that. I would hope that someone would have briefed him on the stronger evidence before hand. If not, and he just hears "Illuminati" at an event and then rushes off to prepare his question about 'Owls' to the PM for the following day then what use is that person anyway?(ok, granted most MP's are useless..)
Any MP worth getting on our side would be informed of all the facts. We would make sure of that as a Movement. Our event here in Liverpool started with an in depth film regarding the basic but strong evidence to the contrary about 9/11. Shayler's occult references are hardly worth mentioning they were so brief.

But...lets say an MP got wind of the whole 9/11 truth detail and really does pitch up on our behalf in the commons and clears his throat. Do you really believe that as long as he doesn't say .." Mr Speaker, a shadowy elite group of world financeers are carrying out mock child sacrifice in a secluded redwood grove in California and 9/11 was an." and instead just said ..." 9/11 wasn't carried out by Al Qaeda but was an inside job...etc" he's going to finish his sentence above the rasps and jeers? I think not. Not at this stage. The big court case cannot be made that way. It can only be made by the people. Or by showing enough MP's the evidence for enough of them to do it en masse.

To clarify my point about knowing Shayler is an ex-agent. You said we don't. Ok, technically we don't. No more than we know if he's still one o' Them. What I meant was at least we have some evidence for this. He has credible sources. We know absolutely nothing about you whatsoever. Now read the point I originally made with that in mind. As I've said before his presence got our movement here a lot of attention. It was worth the risk. Initially.

To summarise, I would say that as a movement we are a long way from presenting a case to the authorities. Lets face it THEY are the authorities. What we need to do is build up a network of groups through the internet across the world and do our best to wake the sheeple. This is our main objective until someone with weight and presence like a famous person, who has the balls to stand up on film for all to see and say "people look at this" most folks are just going to be content with Soap land and the easy life. By waking more people up to the evidence we slowly work toward breaking the mainstream and then comes the big case.

It is happening, slowly. Sheen, Lynch and others are being very brave and going public. If you believe so much in your own strategy and overview of things then please, keep doing things about it. I will invite you to our next merseytruth team meeting when I know when people can attend. If your famous then ok. Do what you can. But we need people who are brave and willing to take risks. As I said, at our events here in Liverpool we will not film you.

If you are willing to warn others not to attend for fear of being filmed then one would have to ask, would your presence be worth anything at all?

Respectfully of course.

[TonyGosling]

reality check

The forces of darkness use covert filming which you don't get a chance to choose whether to be or not

You shouldn't go to any public event at which you don't want to be filmed exept in a balaclava or veil - the only place you have, and should have rights not to be filmed is in your own home or workplace.

Whilst you might not like it... you have no right at all (other than a polite request which can be ignored) not to be filmed, photograped or recorded in public.

The irrational fear of being filmed is deep rooted in superstitious and mentally ill people. And yes it is irrational to be afraid of being filmed because if someone wants your picture or to film you speaking for any nefarious end they will do it without you knowing anything about it.

[RespectfullyMyPointIs]

Could we just film events from the back??
Is Shayler for 911 truth maybe a long term risk, perhaps time will tell

What about medics , council workers and media people . Many of them may not attend a public meeting till they know they have at least some privacy.
I feel making them go to the camera saying I don't want to be filmed making any points, is making an issue.
I think filming 911 truthers,may inhibit people coming forward to ask questions. Perhaps we need a quality of evidence rather than quantity.

Lets work together to get a campaign capable of being strong enough to achieve its objective.

I think the right not to be filmed is probably seperate from the right not to be broadcast. Remember that Youtube recent legal case.

[RespectfullyMyPointIs]

Just thought I'd point out that
The Washington Post in a loosely related story is linking to the Echo article. You know my scepticism on Shayler. Seems odd to me.
Take a look.

[GodSaveTheTeam]

Respectfully,

If you read the Echo article carefully, Shayler states that he was misquoted. Which I tend to agree with. If you watch the Sky interview again he makes no mention of holograms in it as far as I remember.

Listen, even one of our own team's members, in a meeting before our event, brought up the mind numbingly obvious point that Shayler may still be working as an agent and is intent on sabotaging the Movement.

Anyone with a couple of brain cells and involved in the movement has by now asked themselves that very question.

I'll explain to you as I did to him why I still believe that it was the right thing to do to invite Shayler to our initial opening event....he got bums on seats! It's that simple. I seriously doubt that if he had not been featured we would have had as many people at our event.

The movement isn't as you believe too closely related to your so called Ickisms. It's just not true. It may now be true of this page now that you have kept bringing it up but... Shayler hardly mentioned the Occult aspects of 9/11 (of which there are many) at the event but you are determined to keep going on and on about it. This is far more suspicious behaviour if you ask me.

Everywhere Shayler goes there are going to be people who are going to try and associate his references to the NPT on Sky to the main thrust of the movement. Maybe they are the agents. It's just as likely. Again, a mind numbingly obvious and laboured deduction.

You say yourself that you enjoy public meetings and debating figures like Shayler. Would this have been possible had he not been there? No. Had he not been there I'm sure we would have been accused of shielding him from possible NPT questions. You can't win.

I myself am no big Shayler fan.I like all other sources of info to be honest with you. If you want to obsess over him or try to prove he is not on our side then cool. Knock yourself out.

There are, like it or not, some Occult aspects to 9/11 as well as other the other related incidents. That's just integral I'm afraid and there are going to be people who are interested in that aspect of things. You cannot stop them. That's the nature of free speech. The thing we are fighting for by the way. Some people have come to this movement through David Icke. Some through Alex Jones. Some through Shayler. All three have engaged in the occult aspects of 9/11 in their info. But all three are on the record engaging in the hard facts and evidence as well. Are all three agents? Some think so, but do very little else than point an oh so 'knowing' finger from the comfort of their PC chair. None of the three though, focus only on these so called Ickisms. Again it's only our detracters that seem so hellbent on doing this.Calling us conspiracy nuts and Ickians or the like.

You totally misunderstood the reason why I referenced Bohemian Grove. It wasn't referenced as a true event.I was merely pointing out that both possible topics would be met with the same derision if they were raised in parliament. If any MP stood up tomorrow and asked "Mr Speaker, was 9/11 an inside job?" they would be met with the same ridicule as asking
"do world financeers engage in mock child sacrifice...". The time is not quite right in my opinion.

I do not believe that we are at the stage in the movement where we can get an MP to raise the questions that need to be answered in parliament just yet. We are getting there slowly. If people keep holding events and getting the message out there eventually the movement will be burgeoning upon the mainstream media. That's when we may be able to get a trustworthy MP..(oxymoron?) or a bunch of them from every group's city, to network and do just that together.

If you think you can get an MP to raise it in Parliament, go ahead. Why waste time telling us how to do your own ideas?

You didn't need to include an analysis of the Cremation of Care's credibility. But it has to be said that it is verifiable with more than just the Alex Jones video.


You call Jones a religous zealot? That's a little harsh. Like him or loathe him you have to say that he's done more to wake folks up than probably anyone else in the movement. He has the courage that those who would be afraid to attend meetings for fear of being filmed would lack it seems. Again we don't know if he's an agent. But again we don't know if you are either. What have you done to wake people up that you can show us?

To answer point 3, ANY video on you tube meets with hostility from time to time. Look at any video and you will probably see a threat or an insult directed at the film maker. That's just the way it goes. I myself have a couple up on there and have had the same thing. Thing is though,my face is clearly seen in the films and I haven't been approached by anyone threateningly. Not once, and I've been all over the country in the last 6 months since I put them up.They've had some 1500 views.

You say that you have been attacked many times both here and abroad. Were you filmed beforehand? If not then why were you attacked? You've said that you're not famous and judging by your reticence to be filmed at 9/11 gigs it's probable you weren't then either. So would it really make any difference if you were on you tube when you're getting harrassed already?

Even if we film people from the back, are we to tell them not turn to the side or go to the toilet or make a single sound for fear of recognition? Their profiles and voices could be recognised, I mean come to think of it, there is probably a technique to identify people from the backs of their heads in todays sophisticated surveillance technology.

How far do we have to go to ensure their anonymity?Cover surrounding CCTV? Give everyone in the audience blindfolds so they can't identify others? Confiscate camera phones? Stop filming events altogether? Stop holding events altogether? Search people before they come in? THAT would be doing the Police state's job for them my friend.

Perhaps those that are afraid to be filmed shouldn't attend events at all.Maybe they can find other ways to support the movement. Afterall we cannot totally safeguard against their identities being put in the wrong hands.

We have too much to do to be ensuring we fulfil the personal wishes of each and every audience member. We need the people that attend to lend their weight to the issues. Not a sea of pixelated faces. What impression does that give to those new to the movement watching the film of an event?They would think that the movement is not worth being identified with.

In my opinion I see no use in people coming to an event, giving their points in unrecorded isolation and then scurrying off into obscurity again until we have achieved our aims.

I haven't once said that we would film someone against their wishes but we cannot be expected to pussy foot around at our events.

I agree that we should abide by peoples wishes for anonymity but a simple announcement and a pointing out of the camera is enough in my opinion.

You make it sound as though the people that filmed the event on the 25th of Jan did nothing other than film the audience. This did not happen as far as I know.

Do you really believe that the filming issue is the only barrier against getting more people on board? It's not. Even some of those who are not afraid to be filmed and have seen the hard evidence still don't believe that it's an inside job.What do we do with those people?

Forgive me if I missed something but contrary to your belief I don't know who you are. Sorry.

I'm not sure what you mean by being out in both ways. I haven't even seen the film of the event. I don't even know if it's being released anymore to be honest so if that was your plan...well done.

If you believed that I'm somehow an agent who has mind controlled you into revealing,(albeit crypticly enough for me to still not know who you are)your identity then I seriously fear for your mental well being.

If you are intent on warning others not to attend future events then your presence here is seriously suspect and would seem like nothing other than sabotage. The 9/11 truth movement is strong enough to achieve it's objective if indeed it's followers are strong enough to stand up courageously to the masters of war, not hide away from cameras at events for some overtly paranoid notion of having your life ruined. The ruination of all our lives by Their cashless control grid is a far more dangerous prospect. In the words of Mr Shayler...give me Liberty or death.

[RespectfullyMyPointIs]

Misunderstandings.
My apologies if you misunderstood the quote regarding Alex Jones + BG. It was about an unsympathetic press view. Actually it seems we may well be singing from the same hymn sheet here without realising it. It was a great job to get Shayler to Liverpool, thank you.
just concerned about 911truthers being compromised in their lives. I'm not so concerned about authorities identifying key players/vocal audience members on video.
For example publish a photo of someone in a difficult situation say a swingers party and you may compromise them.

People with political curiousity know, if they attend a public political event, they will be filmed by security forces. Thats a decision before the event, but our own film crews give a cover for security forces picture squads.

Aside from Shayler scepticism which is natural as he's ex intelligence agent , I always try and argue for inclusion (see last years Ronson stuff)
Its about respecting privacy and understanding the difference between putting a floor point across to a sympathetic crowd and being broadcast to neighbours, friends and employers, some who are not sympathetic to the cause.

Does this, a campaign to prevent intrusion on civil liberties need to take this line. Is there something to loose by the movement protecting people who may have something to contribute??
911 truth could welcome the timid, and respect the line between attainable privacy of the outspoken and mass publicity for keyplayers.

This week has seen the tragic death of a key NYC 911 truther/witness maybe another 911truther sacrificed his job for his controversial beliefs? Could we do our best to look after the families, jobs and social networks each us find comfort in when we are not 911truthing.

[GodSaveTheTeam]

I agree that those that don't want to be featured in a final cut should have the right to choose. But the thing is I still don't think you would be at that much of a risk by being up on you tube.

I have completely understood what you have been saying from the start but I'm not sure the scenario of swingers is an appropriate comparison. Afterall you were only at a film screening. Not engaged in the same kind of compromising position. If your presence was spotted by say "one of your pupils" and word got round, what's wrong with saying you were just politically curious?Or asked to go with a friend?It's not like they've got a picture of you naked.

It may have other dangers depending on how active you become in the movement.

I told the makers and owners of the film when I first saw your post of your fears a few days ago and as yet they haven't put the film up as far as I'm aware. I asked them to look at your post so I guess they may be working on the pixelation detail.

I still think there is very little chance you or anyone else would be actually recognisable apart from those in the actual spotlight so to speak. I also think that there's just as much risk of 'Mr J' being exposed through chance word of mouth. Which would still be infinitely more potentially embarrassing than being seen on you tube at a 9/11 gig.

Your points are being discussed in another thread as "Should we film our 9/11 truth events?". I think this is a dangerous question which paradoxically plays right into the hands of the Big Brother population control. Once people start living in fear then THEY have won. If you won't go to a public film screening out of fear then what hope has the Truth movement got ultimately?

At a time when personal media and the freedom of its creation, distribution and expression are being threatened and encroached upon daily by the global Internet Powers That Be, as in the current 'Google Video going down the Tube' fiasco; where individual and group creativity is beginning to suffer via Corporate Censorship; ensuring OUR ability as citizens to FREELY film, produce and display to others what we feel is politically and socially important is crucial to the Movement and to its success and continued momentum. To start censoring ourselves at this stage is madness.

Do you think that just coming along to an unfilmed event and saying a few words 'off the record' is going to be enough of a contribution to forward the movement and make it achieve it's aims? This movement needs people behind it. Not faceless, nameless onlookers.For it to ultimately succeed, people are going to have to trust each other and stand up together as one against the criminals. Otherwise it aint gonna happen.

In the future I will ensure that anyone at an event I help organise is not included in the final cut if they request not to be. That really is the most I can do given the level of potential surreptitious filming that could be carried by whomsoever decides to film you as I've already mentioned.

Once this movement concentrates on the few instead of the many we might as well not bother. We are back to square one. The whole point is getting more and more involved and gathering momentum. To start worrying about the needs of individuals attending now would slow that down. If they don't want to risk being filmed they may be better off just doing research and converting close friends.

Ironically, by asking so publicly that you have a wish not to be included in the film you may have drawn a 100% more attention to a film that may have otherwise gone largely unnoticed.

Also I'm afraid you are going to have to disclose yours and your companions appearences to me or the film makers so we can make the necessary cuts. So that's at least four more that will know who you are than if you'd have not requested this measure.

I don't think you have the right to cause those that have expressed no wish to be cut out so this is the only way we can grant yours and their wishes.

In future it may be worth asking, why go to an event that may risk you being filmed if you don't want to be filmed? Why not stay home and concentrate on less public ways of helping out the movement and wait for the film to come out on you tube?

Sadly, you may have stopped the film being posted at all. By mentioning legal action, the film makers who I'd only met on one previous occasion may have decided it's more trouble than it's worth. They offered their services for free afterall.

If this is the case and you have managed to stop the film being posted then I can only see this as being done by design. If you were so concerned about anonymity why not contact me or the film crew personally instead of telling us all about many aspects of your personal life for all to see and actually risk recognition?

Respectfully of course.