Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 632 Location: London UK
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject:
stelios wrote:
Prole wrote:
Then I noticed the man on the floor. I couldn't see his face and the only reason I knew it was the same man was from the colour of his top. Was he dead?
Does Daniel not say that he fell on the floor?
Because i recall him saying he fell and then got up and left the bus.
But two years have gone past and none of you researchers have seen fit to interview Mrs Friel even though her location, her husbands name, her children's names and schools were all mentioned and so she must during 2 years have been easy to trace.
Instead of spending two years filing countless FOI requests which will never get you any results why not interview the witnesses and survivors who are already in the public domain?
This is what frustrates me about the whole J7 approach. Why not interview Daniel, Mrs Freil, and all the other survivors who have given interviews already to the press and publish these on your website.
While your at it why not interview stagecoach employees and the cashier working at WHSmith and morgue employees as well?
Perhaps Daniel, as a survivor, would have more access to other survivors such as Regina Friel and could therefore approach them via the survivor messageboards etc to corroborate that it was in fact he and not Anthony that she saw? He should also have more access via the survivor meetings with the likes of Tessa Jowell and official letters and reports than we can have.
We have asked Daniel for an interview on numerous occassions and now his book has been published and a discussion had, hopefully he'll agree to answering some of our questions. _________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 632 Location: London UK
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject:
deleted due to duplicate posting - you should get this forum sorted out it's a bloody nightmare. _________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 274 Location: North West London
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject:
Staraker - Concerning the air-photo you have posted of the 30 bus after the blast, would you agree that the Kingstar van is shown as being right next to the bus? In that case, it must have been taken immediately after the blast. There is no-one on the top deck. I have elsewhere suggested that the top deck was empty, and that after the blast it filled up with the comfy-looking ‘rent-a-crowd.’ Do you have a view on this? I have doubts about Daniel claiming that the crowd on the top deck were there and experienced the blast.
If you checkout my ‘pictures of the 30 bus’ at www.team8plus.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?2549 (the once-great but now hacked-to-bits Team 8plus site) you’ll see that last year I proposed, that maybe the earliest pics of the bus taken from the air showed no-one on the upper deck.
Daniel’s book has no references whatsoever and so we are obliged to judge its inner consistency. On Wed July 13 he admits that since the blast ‘In that time he’d had no contact from any investigating body,’ (p.89) and I take this as meaning that he had not contacted the Anti-terror hotline – contrary to what the blurb of the book states? He there admits to a nagging problem of his credibility, that ‘he had to establish that he was on the bus somehow.’ It doesn’t seem to me that he ever does that.
If there is some CCTV footage showing him on the scene, which you feel is persuasive, on his 4th Bomb site, could you kindly give a link to it?
Stelios I really think you should stop whining and moaning at everyone.
Stelios I really think you should stop whining and moaning at everyone.
I apologise for some of my whinging
And your photos are very important and do provide some unusual insights.
There is certainly nobody upstairs and nobody around the bus. So where is everyone?
There must have been hundreds of people walking around who must have actually seen the explosion but as it has been pointed out the bus driver appears to have already legged it.
This does not ofcourse mean that Daniel was not downstairs and it also does not mean that Regina Friel was not downstairs either. Why hasnt somebody interviewed her?
And i cant understand where all the people in the fifth picture have appeared from and gone upstairs.
_________________
Last edited by karlos on Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
As you know Daniel is an active member of the UK 911 and 7/7 truth campaign and more than happy to answer any questions people wish to put to him. _________________
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 632 Location: London UK
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject:
stelios wrote:
As you know Daniel is an active member of the UK 911 and 7/7 truth campaign
Is this your new moniker now? I was wondering why the 'July seventh' link on the front page omits 'truth campaign'. _________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
Hold on a minute, the BMJ is a medical publication. So what on earth would they be entering into the realms of what the explosive was?
When the police itself have not announced any forensic data.
So whatever the BMJ is writing is PURE SPECULATION and why on earth are they mixing the London Bombings with the Sharm El Sheikh bombings which are nothing to do with BRITISH MEDICAL.
The BMJ is entering into politics and promoting one version of events which they know nothing about.
The BMJ is one of the foremost peer-reviewed medical journals in the world; it's part of it's remit to disseminate detail on up-to-date medical practice to its readership, although is is actually the Student BMJ offshoot, obviously aimed at those still studying to become doctors. Why are you getting worked up over one small part of it, which in the case of 7/7 is clearly states as "Police currently believe...." I would suggest that it would have been more "political" of them to have said anything along the lines that I suspect would would have preferred them to say.
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I notice you did not comment on the google video link which actually discusses the Sharm El Sheikh bomb too.
No, there's only so much I can be arsed getting into.
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And just for interest my family were actually in Sharm El Sheikh when the incident actually occured.
And? If I hadn't been running late I could very easily have been on the Piccadilly line train on 7/7, but I don't make a big thing of it.
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You ask me the question the BMJ are in on it?
In on what? the reporting of a certain version of events that does not bear up when investigated. Dont forget where the head office of the BMJ is
BMA House
Tavistock Square
London
WC1H 9JR, UK
coincidence i'm sure, but it does mean their reporting will be less than impartial
How?
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I am happy to debate whether TAPT could have been carried in rucksacks while running up the stairs and jostling for position on overcrowded rush hour trains and tubes. TAPT is very volatile.
Againd TAPT does not produce an orange glow when it explodes as ALL the eye witnesses have said happened.
Staraker wrote:
Let's even suppose for a minute that you are right, and that the explosives used on 7/7 had "MADE IN ISRAEL" and a little Star of David on them, how would someone writing a medical article know that?
I have never claimed the explosives were made in Israel. Please correct yourself.
My apologies, I was in a hurry and misinterpreted your mention of an Israeli angle.
Quote:
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article298515.ece
The claim by the Israelis THEMSELVES is that the explosives are the same as those used in the Haifa bombing, meaning FROM THE SAME BATCH or of the same type.
So what's your take on that? A staggering coincidence, or a tenuous attempt by the Israeli media to link the two events?
Quote:
Staraker wrote:
"You people"? So what am I now? A medical writer, or are we back to MI5 again?
You people is a collective term to describe DEBUNKERS. You are working hard to foster a certain version of events. Which i actually congratulate because you are actually taking things seriously, and others like the media and political leaders are narrowly promoting the official line despite all the obvious shortcomings. So "you people" is a collective for Official conspiracy theory.
Just another meaingless arbitrary categorisation, then. If I see something which I think doesn't make sense - especially if it contradicts some fact I'm aware of that nobody else has spotted - I'll say so.
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Nothing to do with M15 who i am sure have better things to do than waste man hours on internet forums.
Well, one would hope so....
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You with your talk of kilometres and strawmen sounded like you were reading from a script.
One would have thought anyone writing such a "script" would take better care to avoid suspicion. The simple fact is that I used terms I'm familiar with. Nothing more.
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And Star of David is your way of bringing anti semitism into your argument as your accusation of last resort.
Hardly. I know the difference between condemnation of a country and hatred of a religion.
Last edited by Nick Cooper on Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Staraker - Concerning the air-photo you have posted of the 30 bus after the blast, would you agree that the Kingstar van is shown as being right next to the bus? In that case, it must have been taken immediately after the blast. There is no-one on the top deck. I have elsewhere suggested that the top deck was empty, and that after the blast it filled up with the comfy-looking ‘rent-a-crowd.’ Do you have a view on this? I have doubts about Daniel claiming that the crowd on the top deck were there and experienced the blast.
That doesn't seem likely to me. This is the actual image that Obachike claims is himself:
This is from the second of two shots he claims is CCTV footage (currently on Obachike's blog - I'm nipping over to Tavistock Square at the weekend to see if I can work out exactly which - if any - camera it could have been). He says that the camera "zooms in" on "him", but in fact the figure is not visible in the first shot. What is visible in both shots, though, is an ambulance trolley, a wheelchair and what seems to be a rescue stretcher leaning against a table-top, itself leaning against the car. On the ground on the left are more table-tops, which those in the BMA building reported bringing out to use as makeshift stretchers. Going back to the first wider shot, there are more people milling around, including what seems to be a paramedic (dark green jumpsuit) taking something off or putting something on the ambulance trolley. If the shots were immediately sequential, you would expect the "paramedic" and the other person next to him should be visible in the second, but they aren't. This suggests to me that the second shot was taken at least a little time after the first, but the whole sequence is some time after the explosion, presumably after the casualties had been removed.
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If you checkout my ‘pictures of the 30 bus’ at www.team8plus.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?2549 (the once-great but now hacked-to-bits Team 8plus site) you’ll see that last year I proposed, that maybe the earliest pics of the bus taken from the air showed no-one on the upper deck.
Daniel’s book has no references whatsoever and so we are obliged to judge its inner consistency. On Wed July 13 he admits that since the blast ‘In that time he’d had no contact from any investigating body,’ (p.89) and I take this as meaning that he had not contacted the Anti-terror hotline – contrary to what the blurb of the book states? He there admits to a nagging problem of his credibility, that ‘he had to establish that he was on the bus somehow.’ It doesn’t seem to me that he ever does that.
The book relates him going to a police station and being given a number to ring, but then moves onto other events, before mentioning in retrospect on page 86 that he "contacted them twice." In his interview in New Nation he says he rang twice and got through on the second attempt. There are a huge number of inconsitencies in the book, e.g. he mentions getting silent telephone calls in retrospect on page 108, but doesn't actually detail the first of them until much later. He's also quite selective. On page 213 he recounts a telephone call from "Yorkshire police"; he paints it as harrassment, rather than a wrong number. However, an MP3 of the call is on an old and not directly accessible page on his site here:
"Any connection?
Yorkshire is where the alleged terror cell was based in northern England. I live in London in England's south east. I have had the mobile number for 18 months and never received a call for any such business and never owned a van.
Web statistics show that Bradford in Yorkshire continues to be where a high number of visits to www.the4thbomb.com originate."
If you actually listen to the MP3, not only does it differ from as transcribed in his book, but the caller clearly states "South Yorkshire Police" and definitely has the right accent. The suspected bombers originated in Bradford/Leeds West Yorkshire, the police force of which is based in Wakefield. The completely separate South Yorkshire Police are in Sheffield, some 40km/30 miles away. It's a bit like trying to link a 'phone call from the Metropolitan Polcie to something that happened in Kent.
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If there is some CCTV footage showing him on the scene, which you feel is persuasive, on his 4th Bomb site, could you kindly give a link to it?
The supposed CCTV footage is on the same page as the phone call MP3, but it isn't even remotely conclusive, especially when compared to the previously-posted high-angle shot, for the reasons stated.
Last edited by Nick Cooper on Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total
This is the actual image that Obachike claims is himself:
The image of Obachike is as clear as the image of De Menezes.
No one can make it out, but it is alleged they are who they are.
He is not on the bus anyhow.
Still to see a single picture of the Bus Driver being in control of Bus Num 30.
Like I said before if the Bus Driver is a Bus Driver of bus Num 30 I am an astronaut.
I got the suit in the cupboard. I can even post a picture of me in it, but you wont be able to discern myself.
Astro3 posted a link to some very interesting pictures.
But some people seem to have ignored them
Why?
Where are all the people that should be on the top deck of the bus?
i would like to hear J7 views on why theres nobody upstairs and where everyone suddenly appears from.
You have to answer the difficult questions, it is easy to pick on Daniel and debunk him but debunk the actual photographic evidence which seems to blow a hole in the official conspiracy story _________________
Astro3 posted a link to some very interesting pictures.
But some people seem to have ignored them
Why?
Where are all the people that should be on the top deck of the bus?
i would like to hear J7 views on why theres nobody upstairs and where everyone suddenly appears from.
You have to answer the difficult questions, it is easy to pick on Daniel and debunk him but debunk the actual photographic evidence which seems to blow a hole in the official conspiracy story
The only logical explanation under what we have in front of us is that the people doing the drills alongside the demolition expert company blew up the bus. Then they isolated the street off. Then they got on top of the bus and took the necessary pictures.
Have you ever seen a movie called Spartan? They stagemanage a robbery, even go so far to kill people and the whole thing isn't real to gain the respect of a person they wanted information from.
The evidence that we have infront of us is a snapshot of what is alleged to have happened, not what really happened. One cannot explain either the position the cameras or the empty bus on top, nor can one explain the absence of CCTV alongside the route Num 30 travelled on.
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 632 Location: London UK
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:47 am Post subject:
stelios wrote:
i would like to hear J7 views on why theres nobody upstairs and where everyone suddenly appears from.
You have to answer the difficult questions, it is easy to pick on Daniel and debunk him but debunk the actual photographic evidence which seems to blow a hole in the official conspiracy story
You can't have it both ways, if the top deck of the bus was empty that also calls into question Daniel's account.
You may be interested in these heli-tele images, which were shown on BBC World the following day, the problem is how do we date them? The timing is obviously a few minutes after 9.47 and there is a lot of debris around, would there have been this much debris left lying around 24 hours later?
http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/7-7-30-bus-tavistock-square.html _________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
We have to trust the evidence. There is nobody visible upstairs and no sign of the driver.
I believe the demolition van is NOT connected. You can detonate a bomb from 1000 miles away, if anything the van and the movie poster on the bus are bait for the conspiratorial.
There is no doubt the whole event was staged like the BBC explosion in Cardiff recently. Which means the state is responsible for murdering it's own citizens simply to pass unpopular legislation.
I would expect to see many people standing or crouching or emerging from their cars shocked and dazed. i would expect that at that time of the day hundreds of people would be at that location.
I would expect windows of the building adjacent to the bomb to have broken but none are broken.
People walking past should have been injured
And the driver MUST be standing there either looking at the wreckage or pulling bodies from the wreck as he claims.
None of this proves Daniel was not standing downstairs on the bus.
But it certainly proves the official version is a lie.
The bus driver has serious questions to answer.
Hackney Wick - Hackney - Highbury - Islington - King's Cross - Euston - Baker Street - Marble Arch
this is the route of the bus normally. i still dont get how the bus intended to complete it's journey by going this way. After all this route would take the bus to Russel Square.
Do you see what i am saying? They are directing the bus south INTO the area that would certainly be blocked the road outside Russel Square station. And AWAY from Hackney it's final destination which is east. So it looks like there was no intention for this bus to reach Hackney.
3 tube bombs Aldgate, Russel Square, Edware Road. Meaning Woburn Place would have been cordoned off and blocked preventing the bus from going down that way. Anyway the bus had stopped and parked aparantly so it is clear there was no aim to complete the journey.
The official story says Hussein was seated upstairs at the back correct?
Ken Livingstone wrote:
Every London bus is fitted with CCTV and radio equipment connecting drivers to CentreComm, London Buses’ 24/7 emergency communication centre
Diverted from his usual route along Euston Road, the driver of the Number 30 from Hackney to Marble Arch was struggling to navigate his way through the rush-hour traffic and the unfamiliar streets of Bloomsbury.
When he reached the corner of Upper Woburn Place and Tavistock Square, he decided to get help, and pulled over the double-decker to ask two Camden council parking attendants for directions.
As he beckoned them over, the bomb detonated.
"The next thing I knew there was a loud explosion and the top of the bus had been ripped off," Adesoji Adesi, one of the attendants told the Guardian.
Has this witness been interviewed?
surely the driver will use his RADIO?
Ken Livingstone wrote:
Every London bus is fitted with CCTV and radio equipment connecting drivers to CentreComm, London Buses’ 24/7 emergency communication centre
Terence Mutasa, 27, a staff nurse at University College hospital, told The Sun: "I treated two girls in their 20s who were involved in the bus bomb. "They were saying some guy came and sat down and that he exploded."
What about phoning the hospital and aranging to meet and interview the witness?
if someone was sat at the back they would be dead _________________
Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 274 Location: North West London
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:38 am Post subject:
I think these are some brilliant posts by Conspiracy Analyst and Stelios. I ask the latter to mull over the way the Kingstar van stays next to the bus in all the photos - everyone else comes and goes, but it remains, during and after the event on that day. They are the specialists in Controlled Demolition, and they needed to be right there while this theatrical event happened. But, however skillful they are, they are not mass murderers! They are civilian not military. Therefore, the top deck had to be empty when the blast happened! Q.E.D.
To get a focus on the idea of terror-drills as theatre, with the public not warned in advance to add 'realism,' consider the following:
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An emergency exercise on Underground was reported on Sunday, 12 June, 2005, 11:30 GMT,as follows. London's emergency services were being called into action for a training exercise on the underground. The live emergency exercise will take place at Tower Hill Tube station on the District Line on Sunday. The station is already closed due to major track replacement work between Whitechapel and Earl's Court. Roland Murphy, from London Underground, said good safety procedures are in place "but we can always build and improve upon them." He added: "All participants are unaware of the 'disaster' until the exercise starts, so they treat it as real as possible." London Underground is legally required to hold an emergency exercise on the network every year. A police cordon will be erected around the station, and Trinity Square, Savage Gardens, Wakefield Gardens and Coopers Row will be closed for most of the day. (Source BBC website)
In a BBC News report following the Bank station exercise Linda Smith of the Fire Brigades Union told BBC London of the controlled conditions under which the exercise was carried out: "The cadets used as victims had been fully briefed and of course ordinary members of the public wouldn't have known what was going on, " she said. "It was done on a Sunday, the area was cordoned off, there were no members of the public allowed even on the footpaths around the area.
Advice on conducting 'live' terror-drills in the UK suggests the inclusion of walking wounded and casualties to 'add to the realism', and is recommended to companies testing their emergency plans by the London Resilience website: Live exercises. Live exercises range from a small scale test of one component of the response, like evacuation, through to a full scale test of the whole organisation to an incident. Live exercises provide the best means of confirming the satisfactory operation of emergency communications, and the use of 'casualties' can add to the realism. Live exercises provide the only means for fully testing the crucial arrangements for handling the media.
That was what was going on. I think we should accept the main argument of the J7 website, that the 30 bus explosion was part of a constructed theatre event, probably the one Peter Power was involved in. If perchance anyone wanted to believe Daniel's story - ! - then the police cordoning off Tavistock Square with tape before the bus blew up would also be part of this theatre.
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 632 Location: London UK
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject:
stelios wrote:
Diverted from his usual route along Euston Road, the driver of the Number 30 from Hackney to Marble Arch was struggling to navigate his way through the rush-hour traffic and the unfamiliar streets of Bloomsbury.
NB FROM Hackney to Marble Arch - the route we were told the bus took until it was changed and became from Marble Arch to Hackney.
stelios wrote:
if someone was sat at the back they would be dead
Strangely not if they were sitting on the bottom deck directly beneath this explosion (see Louise Barry) and despite the official version being that the bomb was on the floor:
astro3 wrote:
I think we should accept the main argument of the J7 website, that the 30 bus explosion was part of a constructed theatre event, probably the one Peter Power was involved in.
Do you have a source for this bold statement as I'm not aware it is the 'main argument' rather than one of many hypotheses. _________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
You may be interested in these heli-tele images, which were shown on BBC World the following day, the problem is how do we date them? The timing is obviously a few minutes after 9.47 and there is a lot of debris around, would there have been this much debris left lying around 24 hours later?
The News ticker at the bottom suggest that they were shown the day after;
"Londoners are returning to work as the city's transport..."
"Resumes service after the bomb attacks."
The helicopter footage that's definitely taken on the 7th presents the date and time in the following format
10:01:03 24H ........... TH 07/JUL/05
The sixth picture in the sequence on the J7 site shows:
09:55:?? 24H ............ ?? 0?/JUL/05
The character for the date looks more likely to be TH but could also be FR depending on how they format the Rs. The number following would be a 0 and the number after that has a rounded bottom, so should be an 8.
The BBC helicopter footage for the seventh has segments cut out for the time 09:54:14 - 10:08, just as it comes upon the bus, and is again cut for the period 10:09:00 - 10:10:45 and soon after shows an empty top deck on the bus.
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 632 Location: London UK
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject:
guzman wrote:
The character for the date looks more likely to be TH but could also be FR depending on how they format the Rs. The number following would be a 0 and the number after that has a rounded bottom, so should be an 8.
I think you're right guzman that the rounded bottom on the second numeral would definitely indicate that these were taken on the 08/Jul/05.
Is the helicopter footage that you refer to from the 'London Under Attack' documentary? _________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 632 Location: London UK
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject:
deleted due to duplication - @*!@* forum _________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
The character for the date looks more likely to be TH but could also be FR depending on how they format the Rs. The number following would be a 0 and the number after that has a rounded bottom, so should be an 8.
I think you're right guzman that the rounded bottom on the second numeral would definitely indicate that these were taken on the 08/Jul/05.
Is the helicopter footage that you refer to from the 'London Under Attack' documentary?
I don't know if it's on 'London Under Attack' but the following is a link to the video that I looked at
We have to trust the evidence. There is nobody visible upstairs and no sign of the driver.
There are people visible on the top deck - as I said above - in the third picture. The bus driver would - as they almost always do - exit the bus via the front passenger doors on the other side of the vehicle, so obviously he wouldn't be visible if he was in the process of, or had just done so. There are other pictures with people on the remains of the top deck, including the ones you've just added yourself, but obviously they weren't going to sit there until everyone had finished taking pictures, were they? There are plenty of indicators in the "empty top deck" shots to suggest they were taken much later on. You seem to be constructing an argument by placing the pictures in an illogical and clearly unchronological order, which is on a par with the jokes at the time that if you play the Rodney King beating video backwards, the police were clearly helping him to his feet!
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I believe the demolition van is NOT connected. You can detonate a bomb from 1000 miles away, if anything the van and the movie poster on the bus are bait for the conspiratorial.
There is no proof at all that Kingstar use explosives - everything on their website indicates what they do as being purely mechanical demolition (pneumatic drilling, concrete sawing and crushing, etc.).
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There is no doubt the whole event was staged like the BBC explosion in Cardiff recently. Which means the state is responsible for murdering it's own citizens simply to pass unpopular legislation.
I would expect to see many people standing or crouching or emerging from their cars shocked and dazed.
Some of which is exactly what is visible in the third picture, and the ones you added.
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i would expect that at that time of the day hundreds of people would be at that location.
There probably were, but anyone taking pictures is more likely to be aiming purely at the bus than trying do long-shots showing the whole Square.
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I would expect windows of the building adjacent to the bomb to have broken but none are broken.
You might "expect" it, but it doesn't mean they would be. The windows in the BMA are made up of small panes of glass, which harder to break than larger ones.
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People walking past should have been injured
Can you find any reports that say nobody was?
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And the driver MUST be standing there either looking at the wreckage or pulling bodies from the wreck as he claims.
There only pictured that show the immediate aftermath all seem to show the right hand side of the bus. If we had views from all four sides, you might have a point, but we don't.
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None of this proves Daniel was not standing downstairs on the bus.
But it certainly proves the official version is a lie.
The bus driver has serious questions to answer.
Hackney Wick - Hackney - Highbury - Islington - King's Cross - Euston - Baker Street - Marble Arch
this is the route of the bus normally. i still dont get how the bus intended to complete it's journey by going this way. After all this route would take the bus to Russel Square.
Do you see what i am saying? They are directing the bus south INTO the area that would certainly be blocked the road outside Russel Square station. And AWAY from Hackney it's final destination which is east. So it looks like there was no intention for this bus to reach Hackney.
3 tube bombs Aldgate, Russel Square, Edware Road. Meaning Woburn Place would have been cordoned off and blocked preventing the bus from going down that way.
Not necessarily. Apart from the fact that the bus was travelling towards Hackney, if Woburn Place is cordoned off, any vehicles diverted while travelling east on Esuton Road could turn left onto Tavistock Place, so they would eventually hit Grays Inn Road.
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Anyway the bus had stopped and parked aparantly so it is clear there was no aim to complete the journey.
Parked in the middle of the road?
Last edited by Nick Cooper on Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:13 am; edited 2 times in total
I think these are some brilliant posts by Conspiracy Analyst and Stelios. I ask the latter to mull over the way the Kingstar van stays next to the bus in all the photos - everyone else comes and goes, but it remains, during and after the event on that day.
The people (naturally!) move, but virtually all the vehicles remain in situ, e.g. the taxi, the cars ahead and to the side of it, the cars behind the Kingstar van, etc.
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They are the specialists in Controlled Demolition, and they needed to be right there while this theatrical event happened. But, however skillful they are, they are not mass murderers! They are civilian not military. Therefore, the top deck had to be empty when the blast happened! Q.E.D.
It's more logical to suggest that the Kingstar van is completely unconnected. After all, demolition is only one of things that they do, their website (www.kingstar.co.uk) listing as a whole:
I also hate to break it to you, but if you follow the actual "demolition" links on the Kingstar website it is clear that it is in the context of mechanical and not explosive demolition:
In fact, Googling Kingstar's site specifically shows that the words "explosive" or "explosives" do not appear anywhere on it at all. I'm quite surprised that this misrepresentation of what Kingstar actually does has been bandied about for so long unchallenged. Did nobody bother to actually read their website?
And if the top deck was empty, where did all the bodies come from? For your scenario to work, it requires that everyone who is reported to have been on the scene immediately after the explosion is in on the deception. That means passers by, the doctors and other staff in the BMA, ambulance crews, police, firefighters, etc. In other words, scores of people, none of whom have broken ranks and gone public.
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To get a focus on the idea of terror-drills as theatre, with the public not warned in advance to add 'realism,' consider the following:
Quote:
An emergency exercise on Underground was reported on Sunday, 12 June, 2005, 11:30 GMT,as follows. London's emergency services were being called into action for a training exercise on the underground. The live emergency exercise will take place at Tower Hill Tube station on the District Line on Sunday. The station is already closed due to major track replacement work between Whitechapel and Earl's Court. Roland Murphy, from London Underground, said good safety procedures are in place "but we can always build and improve upon them." He added: "All participants are unaware of the 'disaster' until the exercise starts, so they treat it as real as possible." London Underground is legally required to hold an emergency exercise on the network every year. A police cordon will be erected around the station, and Trinity Square, Savage Gardens, Wakefield Gardens and Coopers Row will be closed for most of the day. (Source BBC website)
In a BBC News report following the Bank station exercise Linda Smith of the Fire Brigades Union told BBC London of the controlled conditions under which the exercise was carried out: "The cadets used as victims had been fully briefed and of course ordinary members of the public wouldn't have known what was going on, " she said. "It was done on a Sunday, the area was cordoned off, there were no members of the public allowed even on the footpaths around the area.
Advice on conducting 'live' terror-drills in the UK suggests the inclusion of walking wounded and casualties to 'add to the realism', and is recommended to companies testing their emergency plans by the London Resilience website: Live exercises. Live exercises range from a small scale test of one component of the response, like evacuation, through to a full scale test of the whole organisation to an incident. Live exercises provide the best means of confirming the satisfactory operation of emergency communications, and the use of 'casualties' can add to the realism. Live exercises provide the only means for fully testing the crucial arrangements for handling the media.
That was what was going on. I think we should accept the main argument of the J7 website, that the 30 bus explosion was part of a constructed theatre event, probably the one Peter Power was involved in. If perchance anyone wanted to believe Daniel's story - ! - then the police cordoning off Tavistock Square with tape before the bus blew up would also be part of this theatre.
You seem to be misreading some parts of the the Tower Hill exercise description and ignoring others. It clearly states that the station was already closed for other reasons, and that the area was cordoned off and the public kept away. When the LU spokesman says, "participants are unaware of the 'disaster' until the exercise starts" (my emphasis), it is more logical to read it as meaning that the people who are taking part in the exercise (i.e. not the general public) know they are taking part in one, but they are unaware of the exact nature of the scenario. It is ludicrous to suggest that they would initiate an exercise involving people that didn't know anythign was going to happy, due to the risk of panic and/or injury this would involve. There are plenty of eyewitnesses from Tavistock Square who were clearly completely surprised by a bus blowing up in their midst.
Last edited by Nick Cooper on Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Matthew Rosenberg probably took the only picture in which the bus driver can be clearly seen.
Although there doesn't seem to be anyone backing up Psaradakis' claim that he went back to help any of the victims the following three witness accounts suggest that he was on the bus at the time of the explosion
Adesoj Adesi
Quote:
Parking attendant Ade Soji, 35, of Dagenham, Essex, said he had to run for his life after the bus exploded. He said: "I was helping a member of the public with directions when the bus stopped and the driver asked me the name of the street. I told him Tavistock Square and he called me over. "Just as I was about to go, I heard the bus explode. In another second I would have been dead.
I was just a few yards away from the front of the bus.
The driver had called across to the policeman to ask the place name as he was clearly off route and the back of the bus just exploded up and out to the rear.
The following three seem to be the only people who talk about what happened to the driver after the bus explodes
Quote:
ANONYMOUS EYEWITNESS
I saw this bus literally just explode.
There was a huge noise and there were bits of glass flying everywhere.
I couldn't get too close because the police were on the scene immediately.
They cordoned off the area and were getting rid of people.
But I did see a bus driver in a complete state of shock being led away by a policeman and there were two ladies with bits of blood in their hair and glass.
So I took the two ladies away and just tried to find them somewhere to sit down.
"I didn't see if anyone was on the bus or if anybody was hurt. Somebody told me they saw the driver running away from the bus but I don't know if that's true.
I am sorry STARAKER but you are misrepresenting the photos.
There should be loads of people around the bus, pulling people from the wreckage as is shown in the sun's photo for example, and people who are injured upstairs would recieve treatment in situe
peaple who are walking wounded or pulled from the wreck would be just outside the wreck recieving treatment. Actually it looks like a ghost town scene in some of the photos
but people think about it, if you were walking past and that happened surely you would run towards the scene and render assistence.
As Guzmans very useful analysis shows there are clearly questions the bus driver needs to answer
It looks like the area was cleared before the explosion and that is undisputable.
As i have stated the demolition firm is unconnected, how many hundreds of building white vans do we see every day? So it is a red herring. More important is if the area was cleared and if the bus was stopped, whether parked or just stopped, it means people knew there was about to be a n explosion which means it is all an inside job not an act of terror.
The bus driver claims he stopped the bus, to ask two traffic wardens for directions. I have already stated my view that drivers dont normally swap route and diversions are always planned. but lets for the moment say that he stopped and asked directions then where are the traffic wardens.
The picture from the high level is apparantly an office worker who took the picture so it must be reliable.
Remember everyone has a camera phone and many carry digital cameras on their keyrings.
It is NOT also possible that the deserted pictures are AFTER the crowded pictures. because the area would stay crowded for days afterwards but would only be deserted at the beginning of events. You see people in white forensic clothing would be picking up bits of evidence with tweezers and the human remains (i apologise) so it cannot happen that you have a crowded scene and everyone leaves and then comes back.
The London bus bombing was not Hasib Hussein, it was not an act of terro it was an inside job from start to finish.
Contrast the photos taken by office workers which show the area deserted with the official news photos which show the area covered with people. Can so many people STAND upstairs on the bus after it has been exploded? Can it support their weight?
The sun's photo that shows an elderly asian man being pulled from downstairs by two onlookers. Who is the man? Regina friel does not mention any asian man nor does daniel nor does richard jones.
This was a drill that went real time and people involved must be official secrets act signators. _________________
Last edited by karlos on Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:50 pm; edited 2 times in total
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 632 Location: London UK
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject:
stelios wrote:
There should be loads of people around the bus, pulling people from the wreckage as is shown in the sun's photo for example, and people who are injured upstairs would recieve treatment in situe
peaple who are walking wounded or pulled from the wreck would be just outside the wreck recieving treatment. Actually it looks like a ghost town scene in some of the photos
but people think about it, if you were walking past and that happened surely you would run towards the scene and render assistence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuhBdHc8Nqs _________________ 'The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought'. JFK
There should be loads of people around the bus, pulling people from the wreckage as is shown in the sun's photo for example, and people who are injured upstairs would recieve treatment in situe
peaple who are walking wounded or pulled from the wreck would be just outside the wreck recieving treatment. Actually it looks like a ghost town scene in some of the photos
but people think about it, if you were walking past and that happened surely you would run towards the scene and render assistence.
It was a more or less typical day - consultation, ward round, paperwork, etc. I do a lot of medical-political work - I am chairman of the staff and associate specialists committee, for example, which is all very heavy work, heavier than my NHS work. I didn't have any operations on a Tuesday; I do that on Mondays and Thursdays.
July 7th was on a Thursday...
Psaradakis is pictured After the bus exploded. But there is no evidence he was driving the bus and so far no other evidence is produced.
All the passengers in the close up photo of the bus after it exploded look well, so does the bus driver. They dont look ragged. I wonder why.
The person who took the picture was focusing clearly on the bus not the people...
The picture of the bus driver is a guity verdict on him in my opinion.
He is standing quite relaxed and quite fresh and certainly not injured or shocked and even more certainly not helping injured passengers out of the bus a Gordon Brown awarded him hero status.
One of the witnesses says he got into a police car and was driven off.
That evidence is a smoking gun if ever there was one.
Could George be the James Andanson of the affair?
How can a material witness at a crime scene, a PCV driver in charge of his vehicle, be allowed to leave the scene and reappear hours later 7 miles away?
Has J7 contacted and interviewed any of the named witnesses like the trffic warden, the staff nurse, the doctor Mohib Khan, Regina Friel etc?
Because i would think that it is important to do so and at least find out that these are in fact real people or not.
Because if i had been investigating i would start with all the known witnesses and put their testimony in a formal record. But i actually get the feeling that J7 must by now already know the answers and are either too scared to publish their discoveries or are keeping their powder dry for a decade or two.
Dont forget practically all the IRA bombers who were convicted turned out to have been innocent and many served half their lives in jail. So if there are conclusions to be drawn lets bring these out into the public domain now rather than sit on our hands. _________________
Dont forget practically all the IRA bombers who were convicted turned out to have been innocent and many served half their lives in jail.
Absolute rubbish. For every one of the twenty or so inncoent people fitted up by the police, there were many more IRA members who either pleaded guilty, or did not fight their convictions once found guilty. Many of them freely admit what they did and stand by it, but it is the nature of things that miscarriages of justice will get proportionally far more media coverage.
Hi truth ppl,
The book would have been more than 500 pages long if I had reffered to every second and event before and after the bomb chronologically.
It is a mere 240 pages to avoid an information overload, I think the public have had enough of the media deluge of falsehoods.
I walked into the police station at shoreditch the next day and later called the terror hotline number they gave me on 2 seperate occasions.
Bear in mind the bus had been held up for what seemed like an age and was going nowhere.
The reason there were more ppl upstairs was because the driver stopped on the corner, 70-80 metres away from the only bus stop in Tav Sq.
Ppl on the lower deck immediatly noticed this. The bomber came down and sat by the door, then more ppl on the upper deck followed him or looked out of the window and saw other passengers decamping.
Some of you are clutching at the incredible, when logic stares you in the face, as it did me that day.
Intrestingly, the fact that bomb was placed right at the back and upstairs suggests that the celebrated bus driver may have colluded in some way or at least had prior knowledge.
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