Why cant Stop the war and 911 truth movement work together?

Pikey

Bongo on this thread states ( http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=52821#52821):-

blackbear · Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject:

Hello pikey....

I believe the reason "STW" etc will not touch 9/11 is because it implicates the following:

jews, Israel, mossad, zionists.

I came to that conclusion years ago and hence regard "STW" as "stop the truth". That is why we have the likes of Paul Stott, Patrick Brown, etc on this site.

They should all pop off to a zoo, however I am sure they would not spot the elephants.

Concentrate on the present day holocaust.

iro · Moderate Poster Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 376

if there is a 'start the peace' movement i'd join, until now all these 'anti (insert something) are wasting their energy, you dont have to fight against something... you simply have to be what you want to see in the world.

if everyone did that instead of wasting their time campaigning against things and other people and making enemies because they are (insert here..examples: shills, stooges, lefties....etc..) then the world would be a great place.

Its a mess because everyone is looking in the wrong direction and feeding the problem instead of looking the solution in the eye

Bongo · 9/11 Truth critic Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 687

At the William Rodriguez gig in Glasgow, A muslim speaker made a good comment, he claimed that the truth is a bit like a tree or hedge, you can't defeat the issues by simply pruning the branches... they just grow back. What you have to do is search for the roots to kill the tree dead.

The lies of 9/11 are that tree and STW are merely scraping the surface and even though the majority look to PNAC, Mid-East Oil and lies about WMD, most are too blind to join the dots and realise that 9/11 was the catalyst... and that 9/11 is the key... and that 9/11 truth can be the 'Archilies heel' which can bring the Neo-cons down.

QuitTheirClogs · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject:

I’ve stated the following as an argument on another site:

Very quickly after 9/11 the Left adopted the blowback theory – that the West was reaping the whirlwind of centuries of abusing the Muslim world. This theory plays straight into the hands of the neocon "Clash of the Civilisations" thesis, because it posits an eternal enemy that the West must wage its War on Terror against.

I don’t have in-depth knowledge this, but the argument seems reasonable to me. Does anyone have any thoughts on it?

BTW – nobody has challenged me on it yet.

GodSaveTheTeam · Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:23 am Post subject:

This is so so true QTC, and is an undeniable paradox of the Movement itself...in a ridiculous twist of fate, the very people who claim to be acting in the protesting interests of everyone and even indeed in the interests of the World itself, also seem to be denying the undeniable and very real existence of a money and arms trail which leads straight back to the real perpetrators.

Without using the very tools by which we are controlled, ie statute and regulation, to shape the political and social future of this country, joining together in mass demonstration delivers a very large but also rather less truly impactive punch than law creation. Protesting peacefully does indeed draw attention via numbers, but peacefully using the Powers That Be's own laws to bring justice to those who require it brings far more in the way of direct long term effects and change. There are crimes against humanity being committed every day, and we must keep our legal and statutary heads on in order to forward the movement. By using the scientific evidence which appears so clear with regards to the 9/11 Movement, we can begin to set legal precedents which will help to legally prevent any more of these blood, oil and money fuelled atrocities occurring and continuing to occur at the hands of our Government.
It sometimes sadly smacks of many people joining together as one to protest about something, as long as that something is comfortable and palatable enought not to rock the boat too much. The elitism of these groups is sometimes incredible and saddening and means that good intelligence and positive political/activist networking goes to waste.
We've been lucky enough to have met some intelligent and welcoming members of the Stop the War coalition, who share our wish to gather as many people together under the umbrella of investigation and truth as possible. Well done Pikey for attempting to build bridges , gathering more and more together in active dialogue about these issues is the key. Iro's point is also useful, and the common ground between these fringe political factions is surely where your 'Peace Movement' lies.

We shall do a little bit of Wolfgang research...

PaulStott · Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:59 am Post subject:

At the Anarchist Bookfair in 2005, David Shayler argued that the STWC had in some way been infiltrated or diverted by sinister forces.

Perhaps he - or anyone else in the 9/11 movement - would like to expand upon that?

London Mick · Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:29 am Post subject:

Like a lot of people here, I too went on that huge demo to try and stop the war. We were totally ignored as were the marchers in America and around the world. Dresden like bombing commenced a week later.

Just like the petition against the tracker devices being put in cars will be ignored by these gangsters and their blackmailed minions like the young Jock, Alexander?
Legal moves don't work against this lot. Next time there is a million people in the West End of London or in Washington DC they should just stay there. camp out, don't budge. Bring everything to a halt. Occupy the City of London, the Square Mile.

The Stop the War crowd are wearing blinkers and like an earlier poster said, they are terrified of offending jews and have to be oh so politically correct. I carried a poster saying..."No More Wars for Israel" but most of them just didn't get it. They still think it is all about oil and capitalism versus socialism. I was so pissed off with the same old stuff. Make Tea not War etc. Love is all you need! Peace Now! Meaningless, pointless nonsense.

alkmyst · Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: Another exercise in futility

Do you think that Tony (or Gordon) really give a damn?

So, the Blair Government has permitted yet another Stop the War march. Permitting these outpourings to take place is a necessary component in maintaining the facade of an ersatz democracy.

Four years ago, at least one million people protested against UK participation in the invasion of Iraq ... the controlled media reported that there were maybe 50,000 people on parade. In addition, there has been a further ineffectual protest each year since the commencement of the Iraq invasion.

Tony Blair takes absolutely no notice whatsoever and maintains British troops in two on-going illegal wars. The official number of British troops killed in Iraq is now just over 130; whilst the civilian death toll is conservatively estimated to be in excess of 600,000! Why didn't Tony take any notice? Mainly because these protests are no more than a 'token gesture'.

Even if another million people hit the streets in London and are joined by many millions more in towns and cities around the world ... it is still little more than a token protest!

Protest marches that take place at the weekend are of minimal consequence. Police and other emergency service personnel benefit from a few hours of overtime, the train, bus and coach companies make a few extra bucks 'cos a million people want to be in London, food vendors do very well, but in terms of overall effect, the impact on Goverment is zip ... zilch... nada (for Government read Tony Blair - the Cabinet is inconsequential). Everybody has a great day and feels good that they made the effort to join the march ... but in the overall scheme of things? It matters not a jot!

So how do we change this? Whether 10,000, 100,000 or one million people turn up to protest (by this time the attack on Iran will be imminent!), they need to be prepared to stay there ...until Tony takes real notice. Go with backpacks loaded with sandwiches, snacks, fruit and water .... as much as you can carry. Be prepared to share what you have with your fellow marchers but be ready to stay for two, three, ...seven ... ten days and then some. Stay in London for however long it takes. Imagine this scenario repeated across the world? Do you think that it might get some attention?

Alternatively? Have a nice day out in London ... then go home and watch the NeoCon psychopaths and puppet Tony launch another illegal war ... in your name and in the name of feedom and democracy. When, in reality, the complete opposite is true and American imperialism continues apace

Two million people took to the streets of Madrid after the bombings on March 11, 2004. An estimated eleven million took to the streets across Spain. The incumbent goverment was defeated in the general election which followed shortly afterwards and Spanish troops were subsequently removed from the coalition of the 'killing'.

Peaceful protest can make a difference and the difference will be directly proportional to the determination of the people to make their voices heard.

Please also bear in mind that due to the determination of Tony Blair to continue with his quest to introduce more and more restrictive legislation, this may be one of the last chances that the British public has to express the strength of public opinion via the medium of peaceful protest.

Are you ready to make a real difference?

Probably not ... so have a nice day!

Al K Myst

rodin · Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject:

Mick Meaney · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:49 pm Post subject:

I can kind of understand where STW are coming from, imagine if a group of people turned up to our meetings with an alternative agenda and tried to take the focus away from 9/11.

We wouldn't be too pleased and might even say they are trying to distract us from our mission.

With that being said, when STW were asked "hard" questions about their long term goals and how to achieve them.. it turned out they don't have any other than the odd demo here and there.

I won't stop going to STW meetings and leaving flyers on their tables (with permission) but I leave them to get on with their task as everyone is aware of our message and knows where to find us if they want to get involved.

Pushing our way into meetings creates a negative image and cause resentment towards us.

Mick Meaney · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject:

xmasdale · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:12 pm Post subject:

fixuplooksharp · Moderate Poster Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 216

Why cant Stop the war and 911 truth movement work together?

because most people watch the BBC and think theyre telling the truth.

blackbear · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject:

Hello Mick Meaney

I believe the reason "STW" etc will not touch 9/11 is because it implicates the following:

jews, Israel, mossad, zionists.

A STW meeting in Nelson undertood the truth when I spoke. 9/11...Bush + Blair....look no further. The obvious was true. The STW means Stop the Truth.

"Neither race nor religion has anything to do with 9/11 truth, drives newcomers away from the movement and labels us all as racists. ".......

My arse....do you want to debate the issue since you are in the north west.....

Read a good forgery
Why are so many in de nile about the present day holocaust....
William Rodriguez...thousands didn't turn up for work...

Mick Meaney · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:34 pm Post subject:

Mick Meaney · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject:

Mick Meaney · Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:23 am Post subject:

Also, we are having a meeting of the core group members in Lancaster on Weds (21st), if you want to come. Give me a bell if you need directions.

John White · Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:52 am Post subject:

John White · Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:53 am Post subject:

London Mick · Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject:

To Mick Meaney,

Hey, "Dude" ? If a particular group of people do appear to be behind 9/11 and are pushing for war on Iraq and Iran and then Syria and are meanwhile bombing children in Lebanon I think we should be told, don't you?

If most of the neo-cons who are suspected of being involved in 9/11 are from that same bunch should we keep quiet about it just so as not to offend anybody?

If AIPAC are giving money to all the senators in the US congress and blackmailing them to vote every time in favour of Israel and more war shouldn't the masses be told about this?

If five dancing Israelis are arrested cheering and giving high fives and filming as the towers collapse and are released and quietly sent home to Israel without being charged, should we not be able to read about it?

There is at last a stirring of liberal Jewish consciences in this country and brave men like Harold Pinter and Gilad .....?, the saxophonist, are trying to rally their fellow British Jews into speaking out against the Israelis atrocities. About time.

Enough, already with your anti-semitic accusations every time anyone criticizes Israel or questions world Zionism's role in events.

Do some research. Then again, maybe you too are just following orders, hmm?

TonyGosling · Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject:

Excuse me but we do know Mossad warned the White House about 9/11 well before hand - so wouldn't it be normal if they told Israeli citizens when the US government ignored the warning???

Totally agree with Mick on this one - its not about Jews, it's about support for the STATE of ISRAEL and secular Judaism aka. Zionism.

Using the word 'Jews' as blackbear regularly does with apparent impunity on this forum is designed to inflame sentiments, tarring all Jews with the same brush WHICH IS RACIST and blackening the otherwise good name of 9/11 truth and - in some ways rightly cause Stop The War to Back Off.

I'm quite sure Mr Shayler 'no planes' ravings have also contributed to scaring other groups like STW off.

Mick Meaney · Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject:

As for your points, london mick, my role is to wake up people to the facts of 9/11 as I see fit. With a number of years experience in this I believe by presenting evidence of a "Jewish conspiracy" is playing directly into the hands of those who want to label us as racist and I refuse to deal with this small minded mentality.

If you feel it's right to handle things differently, that's your prerogative.

London Mick · Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject:

You, Lancashire Dude, are the only person I have ever heard suggest that there may be racists among 9/11 truthers, dude.

Do you agree with my condemnation of Israeli barbarism, dude? Just wondering. Cool

Rude Dude. Doody de do de doo!

Light Infantree · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:01 am Post subject:

The Ipswich Group were invited to a local STW meeting back in Novermber. They had heard about Annie & Dave coming to speak in the town and felt it was important to know what was happening with 911 Truth. I made a point of being very neutral and ensuring that we did not 'go for the jugular'. We kept it simple and stuck to the facts. I was not attemting to win them over or impress them infact I encouraged them to research 911 for themselves. Mark_e and myself, who attended prepared ourselves before going in to the meeting and ensured we we singing off the same songsheet.

Several of the STWers came to see the talk and took part in the Q&A at the end. Result.

In January we asked if we could attend a local STW meeting and have a table with DVD's books and other information. They agreed and we had a cracking night building bridges and encouraging the 911 debate as much as we could. Present at the meeting were the UK chair for STW UK and someone (can't remember his name) from 'No to Trident'.

We were there to promote WR's talk on the 24th and ironically they held the meeting to drum up support for the march in London on the same day (this Saturday). So, in a way we were fighting a lost cause, but it didn't matter. To be there and to be seen to be there was enough. People do watch what is going on around them and we had more people coming to speak to us at the end than anyone else, including the UK STW Chairman!

If I had stood up and started to rambling on how I REALLY feel about the the futility of STW all I would have done would have been to further isolate the 911 truth issue and wasted my time.

The STWers are going to be the next wave of Truthers (not all of them granted, but many)

As this truth garden grows, and as long a we tend to the weeding without killing everything that does not take our fancy, people will begin to florish. We must know when to sit back and wait. Are we really expecting the whole world to suddenly go 'oh yeah, it was an inside job'?

So come on, lets peace this together:

In my heart I know that is futile to be part of anything that has 'anti' or 'stop' as part of its banner. Its a lame duck before it has even hatched. But we need to be patient and stop pointing fingers at groups like STW. Lets rise above the smoke and help them. Bless 'em, they are only doing what they think is right.

Our challenge at this grass roots level campaigning is to trick people into discovering the truth. Telling them they are wrong directly, works in some situations, but most like to grow into it somewhat. The trickery is to get their attention and know when to strike the hammer blow, if at all.

This tactic is exaclty what those behind 911 have done to the population of the planet only for negative (selfish) gain. They have been doing it for centuries - they 've got the handbook.

Well, we have got the handbook too, so lets use it.

...and for goodness sake stop f**king bickering. I incarnated on this planet on a life plan especially to systembust, not to be involved with outdated and childish patterns of behaviour.

So lets bust this system - we can do it, but it needs a strong and focused collective.

Not everyone is like you. With a little patience, who knows

Mick Meaney · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:17 am Post subject:

Abandoned Ego · Moderate Poster Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 288

ian neal · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:07 am Post subject:

True abandonned, but not any longer

I'm not going to wake up another mod to take action tonight, but blackbear your references to jews in your recent posts crosses the moderation boundaries.

Likewise London Mick, your evidence free accusations against Mick Meaney also crosses this boundary.

See moderation policy for detail

Anyone else, as I make perfectly clear on my numerous previous attempts to explain this (search zionism and my name) this site will not censor discussion of zionism and the state of Israel, but start talking about jews this and jews that and you are no longer welcome.

And as the moderation policy clearly states, don't make accusations that another poster is a 'shill' without evidence. In fact anyone wishing to make such an accusation should probably run by the moderators first

conspiracy analyst · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:14 am Post subject:

London Mick · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:29 am Post subject:

Thankyou, Conspirator. It's nice to have a friend here!

Nah then Mr. Meaney, no I have no evidence on you but I was just following my intuition. I could be wrong.

You still haven't answered my question about the Israeli barbarians. You do seem to be avoiding that one. Do you condemn what Israel is doing or not?. Yes or no? Knowing where you stand on that will clear up a lot of confusion.
Zionism is the enemy of mankind. Read the thoughts of an Israeli jew on Zionism and the NWO.......http://www.gilad.co.uk/

	9/11, 7/7, Covid-1984 & the War on Freedom Forum Index -> General	All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2