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'9/11 Inside Job Denialists'
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:07 pm    Post subject: '9/11 Inside Job Denialists' Reply with quote

10 Ways Old Conspiracies Resuface to Support Old Lies

1. JFK was killed by a single gun, by a lone gunman yet no evidence EVER showed that that was either possilbe physically or scientifically. They even made a film questioning its central premise but it is repeated ad nauseum...

2. The Lusitania wasn't sunk by the US armed forces to enter WWI. Neither did they know about Pearl Harbour beforehand despite making a film showing precisely that. Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened despite everybody knowing now it was the cassus belli for the escalation of the Vietnam war.

3. Seeing Elvis in a supermarket is always mentioned as a way of 'proving' that the official story of everything is always the only plausible one...

4. Diana was killed exactly as it was reported so was Dr. David Kelly. To believe anything else brings you back to believing other 'conspiracies'. So believe in none. Just believe what the government tells you.

5. Despite multiple versions of one story, every real conspiracy has only one belief, what the government tells you. Anything else is a conspiracy. Believe in multiple versions of the one truth. 9/11 wasn't a conspiracy because it ...was!

6. Where logic ends 9/11 inside job denialists begin. Ever tried arguing simple points that a picture from a CCTV camera is no evidence of anything, never was, never will be. Someone walking from point A to B shows nothing.

7. 9/11 inside job denialists are more akin to the Catholic Churches flat earthers. Everything boils down in the end to a matter of belief. A belief that the laws of physics can be suspended, that the laws of science can be reverted. Bringing flat earthers down to earth makes you a heretic.

8. The more people believe 9/11 was an inside job, the more the organised forces of the state, journalists, politicians, radio talk hosts will be in denial about the past, the present and the future. For to believe anything else would make them in their eyes what in reality they already are, crackpots.

9. Even if every lie regarding 9/11 was ironed out beforehand, even if the scarlet pimpernel of 'terrorism' ever surfaced from Hollywood Osama Bin Laden, it would still be impossible to believe if told by a bunch of war criminals, spivs, gangsters and liars, commonly known as the neo-cons.

10. What is the difference between denialists in different aspects of life? Here is a question the 9/11 inside job denialists will never answer as they always pick out the best from the past, that nearly absolutely everyone dismisses to defend their current lies...
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gosh, a brand new conspiracy theory! No one has previously suggested that the Lusitania was sunk by US forces. Have you some new evidence that Kapitänleutnant Walther Schwieger doctored U20's log when he claimed to have sunk her? How exciting!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: Soon... Reply with quote

admitting Osama Bin Laden wasn't responsible for 9/11 may become a 'thought crime', like other 'denialists' on other issues.

Assuming the history of the USA isn't one of provocations, fake cassus bellis is assuming that Osama is alive and well.

Works well if you want a story to frighten you kid at kindergarten, but in the real world, or real wars and real invasions everyone knows its made up.

Who sunk the Lusitania, who attacked a US ship at the Gulf of Tonkin, you tell me. You seem to support every official conspiracy theory going back in time.

Like I have told you before your real identity isn't Bushwacker but Bushlicker, like the bosses you support of the new world order.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:09 am    Post subject: One of many sites analysing the sinking of the Lusitania... Reply with quote

http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-1/ww1.htm

as you assume most were born yesterday, like yourself, history is a lot more complex and less simple.

There is no man in a cave organising international terrorism.

There are though men with the minds of cavemen who want to send us back to the stone age. But they wear suits are educated at the most prestigious universities and plot behind closed doors and walls.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: One of many sites analysing the sinking of the Lusitania Reply with quote

conspirator wrote:
http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-1/ww1.htm

as you assume most were born yesterday, like yourself, history is a lot more complex and less simple.

There is no man in a cave organising international terrorism.

There are though men with the minds of cavemen who want to send us back to the stone age. But they wear suits are educated at the most prestigious universities and plot behind closed doors and walls.

How absolutely typical of the quality of thought of you truthshirkers!
You have heard of a conspiracy involving the Lusitania, and assume it must be true, without doing the slightest research. You try to quote it here and get it completely wrong, with the nonsense that US forces sank the ship, something that has never even been suggested. You then try to bluff your way out of it by quoting a site that, of course, does not in any way support what you say.

Thank you for a wonderful demonstration of why the laughably named "truth movement" can never be taken seriously.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: One of many sites analysing the sinking of the Lusitania Reply with quote

Bushwacker wrote:
conspirator wrote:
http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-1/ww1.htm

as you assume most were born yesterday, like yourself, history is a lot more complex and less simple.

There is no man in a cave organising international terrorism.

There are though men with the minds of cavemen who want to send us back to the stone age. But they wear suits are educated at the most prestigious universities and plot behind closed doors and walls.

How absolutely typical of the quality of thought of you truthshirkers!
You have heard of a conspiracy involving the Lusitania, and assume it must be true, without doing the slightest research. You try to quote it here and get it completely wrong, with the nonsense that US forces sank the ship, something that has never even been suggested. You then try to bluff your way out of it by quoting a site that, of course, does not in any way support what you say.

Thank you for a wonderful demonstration of why the laughably named "truth movement" can never be taken seriously.


just out of intrest how much research have you done into this to state there is no conspiracy?

i have done none so i shell not comment on the subject, but i am intrested to know how you know it isnt a conspiracy? i have done no research so i cannot state one way or the other.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: One of many sites analysing the sinking of the Lusitania Reply with quote

marky 54 wrote:
Bushwacker wrote:
conspirator wrote:
http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-1/ww1.htm

as you assume most were born yesterday, like yourself, history is a lot more complex and less simple.

There is no man in a cave organising international terrorism.

There are though men with the minds of cavemen who want to send us back to the stone age. But they wear suits are educated at the most prestigious universities and plot behind closed doors and walls.

How absolutely typical of the quality of thought of you truthshirkers!
You have heard of a conspiracy involving the Lusitania, and assume it must be true, without doing the slightest research. You try to quote it here and get it completely wrong, with the nonsense that US forces sank the ship, something that has never even been suggested. You then try to bluff your way out of it by quoting a site that, of course, does not in any way support what you say.

Thank you for a wonderful demonstration of why the laughably named "truth movement" can never be taken seriously.


just out of intrest how much research have you done into this to state there is no conspiracy?

i have done none so i shell not comment on the subject, but i am intrested to know how you know it isnt a conspiracy? i have done no research so i cannot state one way or the other.

Whether there was a conspiracy or not is irrelevant to the point that conspirator had done so little research or been so completely careless that he/she failed even to get the suggested conspiracy right!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Priceless. (Only back to enjoy the joke, I promise)

How do you know there wasn't a conspiracy?

So conspiracy is the default situation?

Now it's up to us Liars (TM - I thought of it first. If a Truther look like this I'd rather be a liar) to prove there wasn't a conspiracy?


Sigh

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Batrabill wrote:
Priceless. (Only back to enjoy the joke, I promise)

How do you know there wasn't a conspiracy?

So conspiracy is the default situation?

Now it's up to us Liars (TM - I thought of it first. If a Truther look like this I'd rather be a liar) to prove there wasn't a conspiracy?


Sigh

[/list]


who said anything about a default postion? i am simply stating that if you have not researched it you cannot state if it was or wasnt a conspiracy.

the default postion should be to look into the claims rather than dismiss them at first glance. what research have you done into this?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marky 54 wrote:
Batrabill wrote:
Priceless. (Only back to enjoy the joke, I promise)

How do you know there wasn't a conspiracy?

So conspiracy is the default situation?

Now it's up to us Liars (TM - I thought of it first. If a Truther look like this I'd rather be a liar) to prove there wasn't a conspiracy?


Sigh

[/list]


who said anything about a default postion? i am simply stating that if you have not researched it you cannot state if it was or wasnt a conspiracy.

the default postion should be to look into the claims rather than dismiss them at first glance. what research have you done into this?


Oh look, research:

Quote:
Conspiracy theorists have long tried to demonstrate that Great Britain, and in particular First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill, conspired to have the Lusitania sunk in order to draw the United States into the First World War. However, there is strong evidence against such a theory. For one thing, it was well-known by British, American and German authorities at the time that if the Americans entered the war, they would divert war materials and ammunition - then keeping the British going in their war effort - to raising and equipping their own army for fighting. This would have been detrimental to the Allies, not the Germans. Indeed, two days after the sinking, the British Ambassador to the United States, Sir Cecil Spring-Rice, telegraphed London that it was Britain's "main interest to preserve U.S. as a base of supplies." U.S. Secretary of State Robert Lansing had also prepared, prior to the disaster, a memorandum clearly outlining why American involvement in the war would be detrimental to the Allies.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnny Pixels wrote:
marky 54 wrote:
Batrabill wrote:
Priceless. (Only back to enjoy the joke, I promise)

How do you know there wasn't a conspiracy?

So conspiracy is the default situation?

Now it's up to us Liars (TM - I thought of it first. If a Truther look like this I'd rather be a liar) to prove there wasn't a conspiracy?


Sigh

[/list]


who said anything about a default postion? i am simply stating that if you have not researched it you cannot state if it was or wasnt a conspiracy.

the default postion should be to look into the claims rather than dismiss them at first glance. what research have you done into this?


Oh look, research:

Quote:
Conspiracy theorists have long tried to demonstrate that Great Britain, and in particular First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill, conspired to have the Lusitania sunk in order to draw the United States into the First World War. However, there is strong evidence against such a theory. For one thing, it was well-known by British, American and German authorities at the time that if the Americans entered the war, they would divert war materials and ammunition - then keeping the British going in their war effort - to raising and equipping their own army for fighting. This would have been detrimental to the Allies, not the Germans. Indeed, two days after the sinking, the British Ambassador to the United States, Sir Cecil Spring-Rice, telegraphed London that it was Britain's "main interest to preserve U.S. as a base of supplies." U.S. Secretary of State Robert Lansing had also prepared, prior to the disaster, a memorandum clearly outlining why American involvement in the war would be detrimental to the Allies.


thats by far the best evidence against it so far no disputing it is more that just a rant saying no its wrong just because i think its wrong and no other reason. that might spark the evidence based discussion but i aint counting on it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: One of many sites analysing the sinking of the Lusitania Reply with quote

[quote="Bushwacker"]
Quote:
How absolutely typical of the quality of thought of you truthshirkers!
You have heard of a conspiracy involving the Lusitania, and assume it must be true, without doing the slightest research. You try to quote it here and get it completely wrong, with the nonsense that US forces sank the ship, something that has never even been suggested. You then try to bluff your way out of it by quoting a site that, of course, does not in any way support what you say.

Thank you for a wonderful demonstration of why the laughably named "truth movement" can never be taken seriously.


I dont represent any 'truth movement'. Nor do they represent me.
You though at every available opportunity represent the Bush line on big things as well as small.

The Yanks didn't bomb Pearl Harbour. But they knew the Japs were going to do it. The Pacific ocean is a big place and slow ships can be tracked.

Fast forward to today. As if the country with a nuclear shield couldn't track 4 planes that hit at its military headquarters or went off radar.

Believing in fairytales I used to when I was in primary. Left the place a long time ago. Hence Bushlicker will NEVER be taken seriously.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 pm    Post subject: There might be a misunderstanding in the phrase... Reply with quote

the Yanks sank the Lusitania. I did not imply they physically sank it although that is how it has come out. I meant that they have placed it in harms way knowing it will be sunk thus creating the conditions of a cassus belli to enter WW1.

The Yanks didn't blow up Pearl Harbour. But knowing in advance it is going to be bombed doing nothing about it is equivalent to doing the job yourself.

That is why a majority of people believe in collusion/or actual inside job of the US government.

As times have progressed since the era of Pearl harbour I believe they did it to themselves openly and clearly with no questions asked as the press is in their pockets. I mean who would ask questions?

The Maxwell, Murdoch, Black proprietors? Give me a break. A bigger chance in converting Dracula off blood than these papers to not print lies.

Their medium is the lie. Truth does not sell. Never has so far.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be truer to say that your medium is the lie, conspirator.

You are now trying to weasel out of what you wrote, but "The Yanks sank the Lusitania by placing it in harm's way" is still as nonsensical as your first effort, and is not supported by anything you can quote. The Yanks had no ability to direct the ship, the site you quote repeats the theory that Winston Churchill contrived to get the ship sunk. Spot the difference?

Talking about a man in a cave planning 9/11 as the "official story" is another lie. There is no reason why living in a cave prevents you from planning such an operation, but Al Qaeda and bin Laden were actually living in quite an elaborate headquarters when 9/11 was planned.

That FDR knew in advance of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor is the theory of one US historian, disputed strongly by every other historian of the period. It makes little sense that FDR, as a former naval man, would risk severe damage to the US fleet in order to start what would inevitably be a largely naval war. But it is a valid theory.

"As if the country with a nuclear shield couldn't track 4 planes that hit at its military headquarters or went off radar." is an absurdly simplistic statement. All NORAD defences were outward facing, and with 4000 planes in the air at any one time, keeping track of them using primary radar is quite impracticable. However, I doubt you have done the slightest research on that either.

I have not supported Bush in anything at all, apart from believing him innocent of organising 9/11, he is quite possibly the worst ever US president, certainly in terms of foreign policy. You are lying there again.

You are entitled to believe whatever you want, even quite implausible conspiracy theories you only half understand, but not to lie in support of them.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: There might be a misunderstanding in the phrase... Reply with quote

conspirator wrote:
the Yanks sank the Lusitania. I did not imply they physically sank it although that is how it has come out. I meant that they have placed it in harms way knowing it will be sunk thus creating the conditions of a cassus belli to enter WW1.


The Lusitania was a British ship. How did the Americans put it in harms way?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The Atlantic Ocean is a big place and slow ships can be tracked"

Do you read this stuff before you post it?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Batrabill wrote:
"The Atlantic Ocean is a big place and slow ships can be tracked"

Do you read this stuff before you post it?


so the atlantic ocean isnt a big place and ships out in the middle of nowhere can not be tracked? just curious.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marky 54 wrote:
Batrabill wrote:
"The Atlantic Ocean is a big place and slow ships can be tracked"

Do you read this stuff before you post it?


so the atlantic ocean isnt a big place and ships out in the middle of nowhere can not be tracked? just curious.


So why were U Boats such a menace during world war 2? Before you say it, U boats spend the vast majority of their time on the surface.

How would you track a ship sailing across the Atlantic?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnny Pixels wrote:
marky 54 wrote:
Batrabill wrote:
"The Atlantic Ocean is a big place and slow ships can be tracked"

Do you read this stuff before you post it?


so the atlantic ocean isnt a big place and ships out in the middle of nowhere can not be tracked? just curious.


So why were U Boats such a menace during world war 2? Before you say it, U boats spend the vast majority of their time on the surface.

How would you track a ship sailing across the Atlantic?


so ships cannot be tracked?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marky 54 wrote:
Johnny Pixels wrote:
marky 54 wrote:
Batrabill wrote:
"The Atlantic Ocean is a big place and slow ships can be tracked"

Do you read this stuff before you post it?


so the atlantic ocean isnt a big place and ships out in the middle of nowhere can not be tracked? just curious.


So why were U Boats such a menace during world war 2? Before you say it, U boats spend the vast majority of their time on the surface.

How would you track a ship sailing across the Atlantic?


so ships cannot be tracked?


We're talking about 1941 (and the pacific if it's Pearl Harbour). The short answer is no. It's hard enough to know where you are when you're the ship.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bushwacker wrote:
It would be truer to say that your medium is the lie, conspirator.

You are now trying to weasel out of what you wrote, but "The Yanks sank the Lusitania by placing it in harm's way" is still as nonsensical as your first effort, and is not supported by anything you can quote. The Yanks had no ability to direct the ship, the site you quote repeats the theory that Winston Churchill contrived to get the ship sunk. Spot the difference?

Talking about a man in a cave planning 9/11 as the "official story" is another lie. There is no reason why living in a cave prevents you from planning such an operation, but Al Qaeda and bin Laden were actually living in quite an elaborate headquarters when 9/11 was planned.

That FDR knew in advance of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor is the theory of one US historian, disputed strongly by every other historian of the period. It makes little sense that FDR, as a former naval man, would risk severe damage to the US fleet in order to start what would inevitably be a largely naval war. But it is a valid theory.

"As if the country with a nuclear shield couldn't track 4 planes that hit at its military headquarters or went off radar." is an absurdly simplistic statement. All NORAD defences were outward facing, and with 4000 planes in the air at any one time, keeping track of them using primary radar is quite impracticable. However, I doubt you have done the slightest research on that either.

I have not supported Bush in anything at all, apart from believing him innocent of organising 9/11, he is quite possibly the worst ever US president, certainly in terms of foreign policy. You are lying there again.

You are entitled to believe whatever you want, even quite implausible conspiracy theories you only half understand, but not to lie in support of them.


The Lusitania had Yanks on board and American goods did it not?
Taking into account they knew where it was heading its easy for coordinates to be passed to the Germans. After all America wasn't interested in Germanys defeat nor Britains, but in their mutual defeat to the advantage of the USA.

So forcing the entrance of America into the war which was unpopular to the American public was the way in which the US elite have ALWAYS forced wars on their population. Their population isn't homogenous nor does it have 'american' allegiances. They are all ex-immigrants. Why should a german american support 'his' government against ...Germany?

So by erasing the particular make up of America you cover for its history. They did the same in WW2. An unpopular war had to be entered in case Germany became too strong and took control of Europe totally as they were in control of it. Up until the outbreak of the war America supported Germany in trade and loans and kept it afloat to the dismay of the French and the British. So another provocation was required to force the US population to support an unpopular war. Pearl Harbour was allowed to happen.

America profited form WW2 and became immesurably richer as everybody else became poorer. Having learnt their lessons of WW1 they refined them for WW2.

Fast forward to the Vietnam war. Whereas there was loss of life in the sinking of the Lusitania and Pearl Harbour nothing happened in the Gulf of Tonkin incident, like nothing happened to the air-craft carrier off the coast of Yemen a few years ago. It is ALLEGED the Vietnamese did it as it is ALLEGED Al Quaeda did it.

Now because I happen to believe the words of a now strangely decased ex-Foreign Secretary of Britain, Cook that Al Quaeda is just the name of a computer programme assigned to the jihadists in Afghanistan I dont believe they even exist or ever existed. You believe a man in the cave, even as high tec as the ones in James Bond movies or even Harry Potter are capable of doing that type of destruction in the USA. Lets assume that is what happened. For 5 years they have done nought? Why is that?

Most people who support Bush to curryfavour with a European audience talk about his foreign policy which is just an extension of his domestic policy. They were started by the 9/11 oil wars.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

conspirator wrote:
Bushwacker wrote:
It would be truer to say that your medium is the lie, conspirator.

You are now trying to weasel out of what you wrote, but "The Yanks sank the Lusitania by placing it in harm's way" is still as nonsensical as your first effort, and is not supported by anything you can quote. The Yanks had no ability to direct the ship, the site you quote repeats the theory that Winston Churchill contrived to get the ship sunk. Spot the difference?

Talking about a man in a cave planning 9/11 as the "official story" is another lie. There is no reason why living in a cave prevents you from planning such an operation, but Al Qaeda and bin Laden were actually living in quite an elaborate headquarters when 9/11 was planned.

That FDR knew in advance of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor is the theory of one US historian, disputed strongly by every other historian of the period. It makes little sense that FDR, as a former naval man, would risk severe damage to the US fleet in order to start what would inevitably be a largely naval war. But it is a valid theory.

"As if the country with a nuclear shield couldn't track 4 planes that hit at its military headquarters or went off radar." is an absurdly simplistic statement. All NORAD defences were outward facing, and with 4000 planes in the air at any one time, keeping track of them using primary radar is quite impracticable. However, I doubt you have done the slightest research on that either.

I have not supported Bush in anything at all, apart from believing him innocent of organising 9/11, he is quite possibly the worst ever US president, certainly in terms of foreign policy. You are lying there again.

You are entitled to believe whatever you want, even quite implausible conspiracy theories you only half understand, but not to lie in support of them.


The Lusitania had Yanks on board and American goods did it not?
Taking into account they knew where it was heading its easy for coordinates to be passed to the Germans. After all America wasn't interested in Germanys defeat nor Britains, but in their mutual defeat to the advantage of the USA.

So forcing the entrance of America into the war which was unpopular to the American public was the way in which the US elite have ALWAYS forced wars on their population. Their population isn't homogenous nor does it have 'american' allegiances. They are all ex-immigrants. Why should a german american support 'his' government against ...Germany?

So by erasing the particular make up of America you cover for its history. They did the same in WW2. An unpopular war had to be entered in case Germany became too strong and took control of Europe totally as they were in control of it. Up until the outbreak of the war America supported Germany in trade and loans and kept it afloat to the dismay of the French and the British. So another provocation was required to force the US population to support an unpopular war. Pearl Harbour was allowed to happen.

America profited form WW2 and became immesurably richer as everybody else became poorer. Having learnt their lessons of WW1 they refined them for WW2.

Fast forward to the Vietnam war. Whereas there was loss of life in the sinking of the Lusitania and Pearl Harbour nothing happened in the Gulf of Tonkin incident, like nothing happened to the air-craft carrier off the coast of Yemen a few years ago. It is ALLEGED the Vietnamese did it as it is ALLEGED Al Quaeda did it.

Now because I happen to believe the words of a now strangely decased ex-Foreign Secretary of Britain, Cook that Al Quaeda is just the name of a computer programme assigned to the jihadists in Afghanistan I dont believe they even exist or ever existed. You believe a man in the cave, even as high tec as the ones in James Bond movies or even Harry Potter are capable of doing that type of destruction in the USA. Lets assume that is what happened. For 5 years they have done nought? Why is that?

Most people who support Bush to curryfavour with a European audience talk about his foreign policy which is just an extension of his domestic policy. They were started by the 9/11 oil wars.

My word, you really are the perfect conspiracy theorist, moving from one wild idea contradicted by all the evidence, to the next, equally evidence free!

Was it the Yanks on board or the American goods who passed on the Lusitania's co-ordinates to the Germans, you do not seem very clear? They got the co-ordinates from their hand-held GPS systems and passed them on by satellite phone, did they? Why not try thinking for just a moment before posting your absurd ideas? Even if a ship's passenger was prepared to assist in getting the ship torpedoed, there was simply no way in 1915 of obtaining and transmitting the information you talk about. The Americans can have had nothing to do with the ship's sinking, and the idea that Churchill was involved is now discredited, apart from anything else, he was in France at the time.

Your idea that Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen to enable the USA to fight Germany is just as absurd. The Japanese war was potentially a distraction for the US, which might never have fought Germany if Hitler had not declared war on them.

As for the Gulf of Tonkin, the perceived attack on 4th August was almost certainly a false alarm, but there had definitely been an attack on 2nd August, as admitted by the North Vietnamese. Some facts for you!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bushwacker wrote:


As for the Gulf of Tonkin, the perceived attack on 4th August was almost certainly a false alarm, but there had definitely been an attack on 2nd August, as admitted by the North Vietnamese. Some facts for you!


So there was no attack at the Gulf of Tonkin but there was one earlier!!!

Superb. Any more grovelling to the Yanks. If your tongue does anymore licking the sole of Bushs feet will come off.

The sinking of a British ship with US goods on board became the reason America entered WW1. You cannot dispute the fact.

Now if it appears in 4/4 wars a single event TRIGGERS US intervention, ie an attack of some sort on US citizens, US goods, US targets then that history is different from Britains which as a country enters wars if ATTACKED as a country, or in 'defence' of OTHER countries.

It doesn't enter wars because some of its citizens are killed or one of its ships are sunk. Countries which fabricate pretexts do so for specific reasons. They cannot rely on their own populations to fight so they magnify the pretext, invent it or provoke it.

Whichever way you look at it its an inside job and has been for the last century in the USA.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if Pearl Harbour was done 911 style according to the CTers it would have been Chinese spies planting bombs which the US would have used as an excuse to invade Japan and take over their car companies even though we never actually took over their car companies but still the point is there were some jews spotted eating sushi in Honolulu.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chaps.

You may like to avail yourselves of the account given by Lt. Commander Joseph Kenworthy given in his book called Freedom of the Seas.

Commander Kenworthy was at the Admiralty meeting where the decision to withdraw the cruiser Juno from escorting the Lusitania was taken.

Disgusted that this decision was taken, Kenworthy withdrew from the conference, in part due to the fact that a further decision was taken not to inform the Lusitania that it was to lose it's escort when the admiralty knew full well that the U boats were in the area as they had already sank two other ships.

Kenworthy suggests in his book that the decision to withdraw Juno was made so as to deliberately expose the Lusitania to the U boat threat.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

conspirator wrote:
Bushwacker wrote:


As for the Gulf of Tonkin, the perceived attack on 4th August was almost certainly a false alarm, but there had definitely been an attack on 2nd August, as admitted by the North Vietnamese. Some facts for you!


So there was no attack at the Gulf of Tonkin but there was one earlier!!!

Superb. Any more grovelling to the Yanks. If your tongue does anymore licking the sole of Bushs feet will come off.

The sinking of a British ship with US goods on board became the reason America entered WW1. You cannot dispute the fact.

Now if it appears in 4/4 wars a single event TRIGGERS US intervention, ie an attack of some sort on US citizens, US goods, US targets then that history is different from Britains which as a country enters wars if ATTACKED as a country, or in 'defence' of OTHER countries.

It doesn't enter wars because some of its citizens are killed or one of its ships are sunk. Countries which fabricate pretexts do so for specific reasons. They cannot rely on their own populations to fight so they magnify the pretext, invent it or provoke it.

Whichever way you look at it its an inside job and has been for the last century in the USA.

Is language not your first language?

There was an attack in the Gulf of Tonkin on 2nd August. Fact.

The Lusitania was sunk in 1915. The USA entered the war against Germany in 1917. Fact.

Your attempt to distinguish between British and American reasons for entering wars is merely the latest example of your continuing absurdity. What wars has Britain entered because she was attacked? Pearl Harbor was an "event" not an "attack" was it? Is that from the Alistair Campbell history book? It is certainly ludicrous spin worthy of the master himself!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Gobell wrote:
Chaps.

You may like to avail yourselves of the account given by Lt. Commander Joseph Kenworthy given in his book called Freedom of the Seas.

Commander Kenworthy was at the Admiralty meeting where the decision to withdraw the cruiser Juno from escorting the Lusitania was taken.

Disgusted that this decision was taken, Kenworthy withdrew from the conference, in part due to the fact that a further decision was taken not to inform the Lusitania that it was to lose it's escort when the admiralty knew full well that the U boats were in the area as they had already sank two other ships.

Kenworthy suggests in his book that the decision to withdraw Juno was made so as to deliberately expose the Lusitania to the U boat threat.


That's nice, but Britain didn't want the US in the War, and the US didn't want to be in the war, so why would they allow the sink to be attacked?

Why allow the attack to happen 2 years before the US entered the war? Seems a bit strange. If you're galvanising public opinion, it's not a good idea to wait until 2 years later to capitalise on it.

And how would removing the escort guarantee a U Boat attack? Germany was avoiding attacking neutral vessels, like the Lusitania, (which was carrying neutral passengers and goods), and the U Boat Captain acted contrary to orders.

Hardly a guarantee.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bushwacker wrote:

Is language not your first language?

There was an attack in the Gulf of Tonkin on 2nd August. Fact.

The Lusitania was sunk in 1915. The USA entered the war against Germany in 1917. Fact.

Your attempt to distinguish between British and American reasons for entering wars is merely the latest example of your continuing absurdity. What wars has Britain entered because she was attacked? Pearl Harbor was an "event" not an "attack" was it? Is that from the Alistair Campbell history book? It is certainly ludicrous spin worthy of the master himself!


Public opinion needed two years to be massaged in the USA during WW1.
After all why fight a war for which you have nothing of any direct interest to be concerned about. The USA has a deep history of having riots about the draft, as happened during the civil war and during the Vietnam war. Those two events herald why the Yanqui population dont like to fight wars but their governments do.

Britain enteres WW1 and WW2 as she was to be attacked by the Germans. She created the non-sensical idea of defending 'other'countries 'independence' which is a cover for her own territories, whilst the USA has entered wars for the defence of a single event, a trigger. That is a difference even if you pretend it isn't.

Mark explains to you what happened. By removing escort of defense ships the Yanks set up the Lusitania. The Yanks could have promised the Germans they would fight on their behalf to defeat Britain and implied the ship should be attacked, by insisting dont attack out passengers/goods?

They did precisely that with Saddam by saying to him we dont care either way if you invade Kuwait, didn't they or is that not true as well?

What isn't true is that 9/11 had anything to do with a man in a cave and Saddam. Yet in both their names 2 wars were started.

A single trigger the cause for two wars? That is the history of the USA.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

conspirator wrote:

Public opinion needed two years to be massaged in the USA during WW1.
After all why fight a war for which you have nothing of any direct interest to be concerned about. The USA has a deep history of having riots about the draft, as happened during the civil war and during the Vietnam war. Those two events herald why the Yanqui population dont like to fight wars but their governments do.


A hostile Europe is no cause for concern to the US? Who would they trade with? And people sometimes fight wars for what they believe in.

Quote:
Britain enteres WW1 and WW2 as she was to be attacked by the Germans. She created the non-sensical idea of defending 'other'countries 'independence' which is a cover for her own territories, whilst the USA has entered wars for the defence of a single event, a trigger. That is a difference even if you pretend it isn't.


That's because the US had no overseas territories before WW2. It was better placed to supply British and Allied countries, rather than enter a war it was not prepared to fight.

Quote:
Mark explains to you what happened. By removing escort of defense ships the Yanks set up the Lusitania. The Yanks could have promised the Germans they would fight on their behalf to defeat Britain and implied the ship should be attacked, by insisting dont attack out passengers/goods?


How could the US remove escort ships? THEY WERE NOT IN THE WAR, THE ROYAL NAVY ESCORTED SHIPS. WHAT PART OF THIS IS EVERYONE HAVING TROUBLE WITH?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

conspirator wrote:

........Britain enteres WW1 and WW2 as she was to be attacked by the Germans...........

Mark explains to you what happened. By removing escort of defense ships the Yanks set up the Lusitania. The Yanks could have promised the Germans they would fight on their behalf to defeat Britain and implied the ship should be attacked, by insisting dont attack out passengers/goods?


You are simply babbling more and more nonsense. The Germans were not about to attack Britain in either 1914 or 1939. Our interest, as always, was to prevent one country establishing hegemony over mainland Europe.

As Johnny Pixels says, the Americans had absolutely no control over Royal Navy escort vessels. What your second sentence is meant to mean is anyone's guess.
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