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Leadership (lack of) issues raised by BBC/WTC7 story

 
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Bongo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:53 am    Post subject: Leadership (lack of) issues raised by BBC/WTC7 story Reply with quote

I have been away since the BBC story broke, I spent all night up, uploading and downloading to make sure youtube etc did not succeed in supressing this information. I then flew out to sunny spain on the 28th Feb and am now back (with a tan!)... but just one question?

What are all the so called 'leaders' in the 9/11 truth movement doing about this absolutely BIGGEST breaking story in the 5 years that I have been researching 9/11 lies?

I see nothing!!! Evil or Very Mad

(Apart from Alex Jones who has been all over it, nice one Alex!)

Where are the 'loose leaders' responses? On the front of this website it says...
Quote:
Some of the people whose testimony or writings challenge the official account:

Michael Meacher MP, John Pilger (journalist), Richard Clarke, Republican Congressman Curt Weldon, Sibel Edmonds (FBI interpreter), Josef Bodansky, (director of the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare), David Shayler (former MI5 officer), Morgan Reynolds (economist in GW Bush administration), Scott Ritter (UN Weapons Inspector), Republican Congressman Ron Paul (2, 3), Andreas von Buelow (2) (German government minister), Indira Singh (whistleblower), Max Cleland (Former 9/11 Commissioner), US Green Party (2), Fire Engineering Magazine, Greg Palast (BBC journalist), Catherine Austin Fitts, Charles Grassley (Republican Senator), David Schippers (Attorney), Peter Dale Scott (1),William Rodriguez, Gore Vidal (journalist), Cynthia McKinney (US Congress), former ISI director-general Lt-Gen Mahmud Ahmad, Dan Ellsberg (Former Special Assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defense (ISA), DOD), over 100 family members (1,2, 3), senior military, intelligence, and government critics of 9/11 Commission Report and many, many more


... So where are all these peoples reactions to the news?

... Why has the front page of this website not been updated to reflect what I believe to be the single most astronomical development yet? Is this lazyness on the part of the 9/11 truth movement and our so called leaders? WHY?

When I came back from Spain I expected to see more being done. I have to say, all I see is masses of debate (which is good), but I do not see anyone except Alex Jones "Getting RIGHT STUCK IN !!!" Shocked

Get a grip people this needs more from those who have the clout to get this mainstream!


Last edited by Bongo on Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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The Watcher
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject: A Question of Priorities Reply with quote

Bongo asked:
Quote:
What are all the so called 'leaders' in the 9/11 truth movement doing about this absolutely BIGGEST breaking story in the 5 years that I have been researching 9/11 lies?

Perhaps you should re-visit your priorities Mr. Bongo. What the hell were you thinking ... going on vacation & not taking your laptop so that you could contribute to the "...BIGGEST breaking story"?

The day the 9/11 Truth movement relies on 'Leaders' is the day that the game is lost. The most significant aspect of the 9/11 Truth Community is the need to encourage everyone to take full responsibility for their actions and for each & every individual to act as though they were the Leader of the Global 9/11 Truth Campaign! Your leadership example of taking vacation at such a time is far from inspirational, Mr Bongo ... to say nothing of your comments acknowledging the contribution of the hundreds of people who have been writing to the BBC and other media, making tremendous efforts to get the importance of this disclosure recognised by the MSM. Perhaps the pathetic responses of Richard Porter, coupled with the apparent lack of MSM interest, should be taken as confirmation that cages have indeed been rattled; ... despite your desire to prioritize the need to top up your tan!

Perhaps you would be better advised to acknowledge the fantastic efforts of those who have devoted so much time & effort to this issue, while you have been lazing on the beach!


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Bongo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please Watcher and with all due respect, that is not a sensible argument...
Quote:
Perhaps you should re-visit your priorities Mr. Bongo. What the hell were you thinking ... going on vacation & not taking your laptop so that you could contribute to the "...BIGGEST breaking story"?


Dont give me that, I was up all night as it happened, much to my girlfreinds great annoyance! And a far as cancelling my holiday, which was booked for months was concerned... Don't make me laugh! (would you tell your partner that "sorry you can't go now?" ) IMO 'Foolish reasoning'... Anyway, I too deserve a rest and some personal time to enjoy life surely? as afterall, you do only get one life!

Ps. I'll be damed if I am taking a laptop on holiday Rolling Eyes

As far as acknowledging all the good work people have put in... do a search for all my posts and read them from the time the story broke to when I went on holiday on 28th Feb. That should answer your question.

My annoyance and dissapointment is that I have not been able to find any response from those people on the front of this website? Please point out their comments if I have just been unable to locate them?

And if they have not responded, my question is why are they up on the front of this website? Surely this 'nice wee list' could be replaced with the BBC footage?

Quote:
The day the 9/11 Truth movement relies on 'Leaders' is the day that the game is lost.
I fully agree, we cannot rely on leaders as has been demonstrated thoughout time, however, we DO require the focus and direction that only leadership can provide.

So lets say on your hypothesis that we all become leaders... Then what? Everyone will know that 9/11 was an inside job, but the evil scum who control government will still be there. And they will be because we are disjointed. While we are running around like headless chickens endlessly debating these issues, they still retain control.

There has to come a point in this movement where we evolve from a mish-mash mass of individuals (as huge amount as that may be!) into an organised movement with strong leadership capable of achieving the required power shift. Anyone who still does not recognise this fact should do a lot of long term thinking about the planning issues surrounding where we want this campaign to go in order to achieve our ultimate goal of the truth. We can campaign and debate to our hearts content, but ultimately, united we stand and divided we fall. Good leadership is the glue that will keep us united.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bongo wrote:
Quote:
There has to come a point in this movement where we evolve from a mish-mash mass of individuals (as huge amount as that may be!) into an organised movement with strong leadership capable of achieving the required power shift.

Agreed ... but that time has not yet arrived. The PTB are desperate for the 9/11 Truth Community to identify their leaders, 'cos then they'll have something to focus upon, ... infiltrate and attack!

Why is it, do you think, that the likes of Stop the War Coalition, Greenpeace, Amnesty International, etc, are ineffectual? In the first instance, whenever there is an identified leadership, there is a tendency for the membership to leave activism to the leaders; secondly, infiltration ensures that these organizations take on the mantle of approved opposition; i.e. a safety valve for the proletariat & a means to organize the meaningless weekend marches, once or twice a year.

The 9/11 Truth Community has an opportunity to do things rather differently. It may appear that a leaderless grassroots process takes longer to germinate the desired changes but metamorphosis is, by definition, a lengthy but ultimately extremely effective process.

I am very comfortable that your required leader(s) will emerge at an appropriate juncture. Meanwhile, the emphasis and focus should be on expanding grassroots awareness.

I'm real glad to learn that you have returned from Spain refreshed (& tanned) and look forward to learning more about your contribution to the case for 9/11 Truth.

BTW posting 222+ items on a forum that boasts barely 1500 registered members probably doesn't count as activism!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:53 pm    Post subject: One Life? Reply with quote

Bongo states:
Quote:
... afterall (sic), you do only get one life!

Oh dear, we really do have a lot to learn! It's a sad reflection on the effectiveness of received dogma that this is still the view of, what is fortunately, an ever decreasing minority!

Let me guess, Mr. Bongo, you are probably in your 20's or early 30's and were raised in an orthodox Christian household. Let me assure you that you have much to look forward to when you turn 40 and have the opportunity to tap in to the knowledge & wisdom gained in multiple previous incarnations. Unfortunately, the conditioning of western society is such that many elect to pass up on this opportunity, usually dismissed in British society as the mid-life crisis but revered in indigenous cultures as a naturally occuring elevation of consciousness. /i] A rite of passage followed by recognition as an [i]elder. However, this process is not without the trauma of journeying through the abyss but I'll not spoil the ride.

Of course, I fully expect you to sneer at this observation but my purpose is to simply sow a seed that will hopefully remain with you until your awakening process commences, so that you don't shrug off this wondeful experience through ignorance.

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wickywoowoo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watcher, I agree with your open minded posts and I am interested in the exact same topics you are, BUT, it was slightly ridiculous to expect the man to cancel his pre-booked holiday because of a video being posted on the internet that, to this moment, has done absolutely nothing in relation to anything.

I think that was his main issue with your post.
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telecasterisation
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When this story originally broke, there was huge expectation. There seemed to be no doubt that it would rock the world, the event that in theory, could open the eyes of the world. However;

The BBC simply played the 'mistake card', in other words, 'Sorry but we screwed up'.

This was basically an admission, not the one hoped for more's the pity, but it had the effect of severely limiting options. All the official bodies that could be approached said 'Nope sorry, we don't intervene with issues surrounding mistakes!'.

I completely agree that it is frustrating and there are still unanswered questions, but can anyone who keeps insisting that this still has mileage list the options;

Quote:
What are all the so called 'leaders' in the 9/11 truth movement doing about this absolutely BIGGEST breaking story in the 5 years that I have been researching 9/11 lies?


What exactly can anyone do with this now?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

telecasterisation wrote:
When this story originally broke, there was huge expectation. There seemed to be no doubt that it would rock the world, the event that in theory, could open the eyes of the world. However;

The BBC simply played the 'mistake card', in other words, 'Sorry but we screwed up'.

This was basically an admission, not the one hoped for more's the pity, but it had the effect of severely limiting options. All the official bodies that could be approached said 'Nope sorry, we don't intervene with issues surrounding mistakes!'.

I completely agree that it is frustrating and there are still unanswered questions, but can anyone who keeps insisting that this still has mileage list the options;

Quote:
What are all the so called 'leaders' in the 9/11 truth movement doing about this absolutely BIGGEST breaking story in the 5 years that I have been researching 9/11 lies?


What exactly can anyone do with this now?


Telecaster, is it getting closer to the time for you that when all the hundreds of 'mistakes' and the hundreds of 'coincidences' that took place in a single day actually become something slightly more sinister than everyday ineptitude?

Considering you were an ex-policeman, I find it astonishing that you put so much faith in this NEVERENDING stream of mindbending but 'coincidental' occurences. It just goes on and on and on. It is something new every week. Did you actually ever solve a crime? Did you ever actually catch a criminal? Is it not the job of a policeman to 'join the dots'? Tele, I am at the point now where I am seriously re-evaluating your integrity.

Can you say something that might change my new POV?
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wickywoowoo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Telecaster is not stating they are mere co-incidence, merely that they are claimed to be co-incidence and really, we have no proof to say otherwise.

He is just pointing out that all we have is this video, which plays 100% perfectly into the "we made a mistake" story, you can't argue against an admitted mistake really, unless you have other proof to state otherwise.

That isn't stating a belief in the co-incidence, merely that it is the most easily accepted reason given, it's two different things.
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The Watcher
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wickywoowoo exclaimed:
Quote:
... it was slightly ridiculous to expect the man to cancel his pre-booked holiday ...

next time I'll spell out the intended irony!

Meanwhile, I think this particular exchange with Ms. Bongo has reached a natural conclusion ... as right now, I'm real sure she's making up for her non-availabilty over the past couple of weeks, and is in the process of mailing out multiple comments, observations & FOI requests, in relation to Richard Porter's attempt to dismiss the BBC's prescience; (he says with his tongue firmly embedded in his zygoma).

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telecasterisation
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We’ve seen all the tricks here, all the little turnarounds and turns of phrases, the merciless use of sarcasm, drole and dramatic irony, liberally spiced metaphor, cringingly poignant pathos, crude puns, seemless parody, hugely understated litotes and biting satire. Even I am prone to antanaclasis at times.

However, by far the biggest ploy in such communal environments is plain and simple avoidance. You ask a question, a direct easy to understand, no strings question and the person to whom it is directed, or has the gumption to bother to type back simply refuses to acknowledge it was ever asked and we are off on a tour de force of semantic chicanery, all in a bid to avoid ever answering.

Thought Criminal is a master at this, a craftsperson. I pose a question that enquires what options we as a body, a movement, can implement to gain a better foothold by utilising, exploiting this broadcasting faux pas? The response just consists of waffle. It isn’t a difficult premise, for if you don’t know the answer, you either simply ignore it or have a crack at supplying an understandable reply.

A thousand times yes - the hundreds of 'mistakes' and the hundreds of 'coincidences' all become something slightly more sinister than everyday ineptitude – but this isn’t the issue, I am asking what options does this leave us, who do you get to act on our behalf, what legal avenue does this leave with the intention of doing what exactly now it has been explained away as a mistake? Agreeing with someone is a very powerful weapon/tool and deflates most attacks and in essence this is what the BBC have done - 'You did XXX', 'Yep, sorry we did''.

Perhaps the starter of this thread would like to supply a list of things that he would do if he was a '9/11 Leader' as he is so incensed by the apparent lack of action?

As for the police question – ‘Did you actually ever solve a crime? Did you ever actually catch a criminal? Is it not the job of a policeman to 'join the dots'? – you completely misconstrue the role of the police officer in uniform, I was not a detective.

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Bongo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony sensored the following...
Quote:
This thread is about dissection and analysis and information sharing on the BBC World/WTC7 'clairvoyance' story. The posts criticising the 911 Truth campaigns response have been split off and are here in critics corner.


... Tony... maybe!!! JUST MAYBE you should do a little more reading and a little less refereeing???

I am absolutely LIVID Evil or Very Mad at your suggestion that I am a 'CRITIC' for my belief that the movement needs a little more leadership/direction in light of the recent BBC evidence. This is not a criticism of 9/11 truth... this is a comment on the organisation and the direction all truth seekers should look to go from here in light of the recent evidence which has come to light.

Who gives you the god dam right to tell a fellow truth seeker (and Ps. I have been at this from basically the very start (January 2002)) that their opinion should be moved to Critics corner? If you are so narrow minded as 'NOT' to understand the focus and direction I was hinting at, in order to fundamentally improve our chances of a resolution to our goals then you should not be in charge of moderating this forum.

I appeal to your better sence of judgement to reverse this decision. I can be called many things, but my un-dying fight for 9/11 truth is certainly un-questionable (check all my previous posts if you wish!)

Ps. The 9/11 truth movement DOES require focused leadership, we can only be a loose organisation up to a point then it has to be united for the last push, as I re-iterate from the post that you sadly Crying or Very sad sensored.

I have said nothing "Anti-9/11 truth" in this post, therefore I will be assuming that this is also not sensored?

Regards,

Brian.
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Bongo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Disgust with 911 Truth UK over BBC WTC7 story


Tony Gosling's words... not mine!

Maybe the moderators could engage in some discussion before labelling hard working truth seekers (ie. Me) with 'CRITIC' labels and criticising them just because they make an informed decision... In my experience of debate, contradicting viewpoints are not sensored in the manner that this thread one has been.

Ps. Telecastration wrote...
Quote:
Perhaps the starter of this thread would like to supply a list of things that he would do if he was a '9/11 Leader' as he is so incensed by the apparent lack of action?


Firstly I did not start or label this thread that was Tony Gosling and his moderation skills have led to major mis-understandings in the translation...

BUT I will suggest a way forward as you ask.... Someone with a bit of influence, say Annie Machon for example, starts up a fund raising exercise and we get everyone to donate in order to sue the BBC for negligence regarding losing the 9/11 original tapes, as consumers of the BBC, we sue them for breech of contract as they state in their code of practice that the tapes should be safely stored and preserved and as consumers we should not accept this. This would achieve two objectives, firstly it would uncover whether the loss of the tapes was true... and secondly it would clarify their authenticity in the eyes of the law... I guess you can imagine the rest???

Telecastration, I am sick of suggesting stuff like this, just to be ignored... this is why 9/11 truth needs good leadership... to get some legitimate legal action on these criminals and finally sink the scum. So who is up for it?

Ps Watcher... who the fek is a 'She' mate? Rolling Eyes got that one wrong eh dude?
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telecasterisation
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bongo said;

Quote:
Firstly I did not start or label this thread that was Tony Gosling and his moderation skills have led to major mis-understandings in the translation...

BUT I will suggest a way forward as you ask.... Someone with a bit of influence, say Annie Machon for example, starts up a fund raising exercise and we get everyone to donate in order to sue the BBC for negligence regarding losing the 9/11 original tapes, as consumers of the BBC, we sue them for breech of contract as they state in their code of practice that the tapes should be safely stored and preserved and as consumers we should not accept this. This would achieve two objectives, firstly it would uncover whether the loss of the tapes was true... and secondly it would clarify their authenticity in the eyes of the law... I guess you can imagine the rest???


Are you saying that Tony started this thread on your behalf - not at all sure what you are implying?

You also say sue the BBC for losing the tapes;

How does Richard Porter's response;

Quote:
And just to be clear, the BBC policy is to keep every minute of news channel output for 90 days (in line with the Broadcasting Act in the UK). After that we are obliged to keep a representative sample - and we interpret that to mean roughly one third of all our output. We also keep a large amount of individual items (such as packaged reports or "rushes" - ie original unedited material), which we use for operational reasons - such as when we come to broadcast fresh stories on the subject. We do not lack a historical record of the event.


Tie in to what they are supposed to do, in comparison to what they haven't? There seems to be two schools of thought here. What do you anticipate would be the benefits to the BBC of losing the original tapes given the net has been awash with a copy?

I genuinely have no clue what legal redress could be sought - the BBC have admitted the information was not correct - you cite 'in the eyes of the law' - what law has been broken and what type of court do you consider this should be heard in?

Without any doubt, I believe people have no clue about what the actual position is - the BBC broadcast incorrect information which they have admitted. That is the end of that specific matter.

They have 'lost' the original footage/tapes, which has been explained in the above quote - I do not know if that does not cover the charter aspects, however I would conclude that the BBC know their responsibilities and have that base covered.

Finally, the only outstanding unanswered issue is the source of the information and the explanation given would satisfy everyone not connected to The Truth Movement.

Unless there is an aspect that can be utilised that I am not completely understanding, this is over.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps a less easily brushed off line of enquiry would be to ask the man from MOSSAD what he meant by 'Our purpose was to document the event'?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Post Deleted By Bongo. (Mainly due to me ending this line of debate... maybe because my personal frustration just temporarily got the better of me with the UK media and BBC in particular).

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On issues regarding anything to do with the front page please PM or email suggestions to JHR who, to my knowledge, is the only person who can change the front page.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bongo

Many share your view, myself included, that as a campaign we need to get professional and have clear and accountable leadership. This forum is not the campaign however.

It's late, I'll post more later
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Bongo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TG wrote...
Quote:
On issues regarding anything to do with the front page please PM or email suggestions to JHR who, to my knowledge, is the only person who can change the front page.


...And you have absolutely no responsibility or accountability as a moderator of this forum to pass on these issues once raised?

It wisnae me Ma lud! Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No - although I have done so with your complaint

I suggest you come along to meetings Bongo - it'd be good for you to meet some people - and to air your views

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