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rodin
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 Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: New Energy Sources |
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There is a body of evidence suggesting that alternative energies/science is being deliberately suppressed. I wonder what readers make of this summary of the situation?
| Quote: | | The Internet offers us, the fourth force, an opportunity to overcome the combined efforts of the other forces preventing new energy technology from spreading. What is starting to happen is that inventors are publishing their work, instead of patenting it and keeping it secret. More and more, people are "giving away" information on these technologies in books, videos and websites. While there is still a great deal of useless information about new energy on the Internet, the availability of good information is rising rapidly. |
http://www.wanttoknow.info/newenergysources
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Bongo
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:00 am Post subject: |
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As someone who works with renewables and understands fluid dynamics, heat transfer and the principles behind the conservation of energy, I can safely say that 'you never get more out than you put in'!
The perpetual motion machine is a myth because there is always an escape of energy within the process. |
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kbo234
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Bongo wrote: | As someone who works with renewables and understands fluid dynamics, heat transfer and the principles behind the conservation of energy, I can safely say that 'you never get more out than you put in'!
The perpetual motion machine is a myth because there is always an escape of energy within the process. |
What do you make of this then?
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-5738531568036565057&q=zero+ point+energy |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Bongo wrote: | | The perpetual motion machine is a myth because there is always an escape of energy within the process. |
They seem to be talking about boundless sources of energy rather than a perpetual motion machine. |
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Bongo
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Hi KBO, I watched the lecture.
Firstly, I am 100% convinced that there are future technologys to be developed within the field of energy. To think otherwise would be simply foolish.... I believe they call it Progress?
However, ZPE is delving into the realms of theoretical possibility. For instance Einstein 'theoretically' proves that Time travel is possible through the space time continuum via his theory of relativity... However, it has not been achieved and does not look like being achieved in the near future. (Despite some experiments involving Space rockets and Atomic Clocks appearing to support Einsteins Theory!).
And that is the fundamental point to all this... The time scale for achieveing the required advances in technology, suitably matched to the specific problems we face in the present and forseeable future.
That is to say that, I fully support scientific study, research and experimentation into all possibilities. However, priorities (and financing of such) must be focussed on achievable targets.
The bottom line is that the world just does not operate the way that Rodin's comment suggests...
| Quote: | | There is a body of evidence suggesting that alternative energies/science is being deliberately suppressed |
...This is a slightly blinkered statement as it does not take in the wider picture. For one, all research is funded and the investors of this potential research require results in order to justify their input of capital. That is just basic economics (capitalism if you like).
In my own field I am involved with Combined Heat and Power (CHP)systems, Ground Source Heat Pumps, Photovoltaics, Wind Power as well as advising on the construction of energy efficient and sustainable construction. And... the overriding component of my work is trying to convince clients to invest a little more in order to maximise their long term returns ('Pay back period'). However, if the client simply cannot afford the capital outlays for these systems, then they simply go with the minimum requirements of the building regulations. This is not stifling energy efficiency as the regulations have been tightened up dramatically in the past number of years, it is simply a case of money. (As always eh?)
Blackcat, The question still remains, as I iterate above, that if someone had invented a machine which tapped into endless bounds of energy and which could be marketed and sold en-masse... believe me, if it worked, they would be as rich as Bill Gates by now!
Regards,
Brian. |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ="Bongo"if someone had invented a machine which tapped into endless bounds of energy and which could be marketed and sold en-masse... believe me, if it worked, they would be as rich as Bill Gates by now! |
I wish I had your confidence. I watched a Horizon documentary about ten years ago (it is also on the net now
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2464139837181538044&q=equinox+ zero+point )
and they showed a "water-hammer" that appeared to be over-unity, which supplied a Fire station somewhere in the USA. In any event it was hyper-efficient but it has still not been exploited to my knowledge. It is not just a question of "if it works" but of how it can be exploited/charged for. |
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John White
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting documentary that edition of equinox. Featured Stan "Im going to work for NASA, oh no Im not sorry I've changed my mind whoops! someone just shot me in the head" Deyo as well
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Bongo
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | they showed a "water-hammer" that appeared to be over-unity, which supplied a Fire station somewhere in the USA. In any event it was hyper-efficient but it has still not been exploited to my knowledge. It is not just a question of "if it works" but of how it can be exploited/charged for. |
Blackcat... you make my point exactly! If anyone honestly believes that someone would deliberately forego the right to a great discovery and the financial benefit this would bring???
From myself who works in this field... believe me, If I came across some 'unbelievable' discovery.... I would milk it! No argument! 
And believe me John, I would find a way to milk it... ie. no stifling of the technological advance would be an option.
I understand your mis-trust of a lot that is going on just now, but it is important that you remain realistic as to the real issues... Please... Dont let yourself get too carried away. Remember, just because 9/11 is a lie, doesn't mean everything is a conspiracy!
Sometimes things just, well... are!  |
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James C
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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The problem with over-unity is that you still need to put energy in and in a world of declining net energy, the whole concept is an ever decreasing circle.
Take a heat pump for example and heat pumps are becoming more popular. A typical domestic heat pump will churn out energy at a ratio of 4:1 of the input. Now a typical Barrett style house requires 12-15kw/hour of energy at peak so 3-5kw/hour of electricity will have to go in (max is usually 3kw). But this is massive and very costly (not to mention the cost of the heat pump, usually about £8000+). But in the event of a power cut this same heat pump becomes a worthless and expensive piece of junk.
We can kid ourselves into thinking there's all this new technology out there but it aint and we are in for tough times ahead. By 2020 we will import all our gas from abroad since we will have exhausted the norh sea reserves by then and over 40% of UK electricity comes from burning gas. Can we rely on Russia to maintain the flow at that time which is where the imports will ultimately come from? No wonder we are fighting in Afghanistan; we are defending the constructiom of a gas pipe line which will take gas from the Caspian Basin to Pakistan to be shipped to the US and UK as LNG. |
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Long Tooth
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:15 am Post subject: Re: New Energy Sources |
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| rodin wrote: | There is a body of evidence suggesting that alternative energies/science is being deliberately suppressed. I wonder what readers make of this summary of the situation?
| Quote: | | The Internet offers us, the fourth force, an opportunity to overcome the combined efforts of the other forces preventing new energy technology from spreading. What is starting to happen is that inventors are publishing their work, instead of patenting it and keeping it secret. More and more, people are "giving away" information on these technologies in books, videos and websites. While there is still a great deal of useless information about new energy on the Internet, the availability of good information is rising rapidly. |
http://www.wanttoknow.info/newenergysources |
Hi Rodin, there is the Invention and Secrecy Act 1949, whereby anyones Invention can be 'blocked' and 'confiscated' by the authorities under the old tried and tested Red Herring of threat to National Security.
I think it was 2002/3 where 179 Inventions were denied/blocked patents for alternative energy devices.
Its hardly suprising that if i was an inventor with some 'device/machine which would make pollution/fossil fuels obselete and benefit mankind that i would give my Invention away free of charge rather than go down the old patent route of 'legitimasy', and find it confiscated to authority to use for military and freedom and democracy uses, (think Nikola Tesla).
I am sure many posters on here are well aware of how the system works by now, think 9/11 7/7 etc, that whatever governments claim, we can be certain that they (governments/world leaders etc) are fakers and skyrers, so why would the alternative energy topic be any different to tackle regarding truth/smoke screens/red herrings and sleight of hand.
With all the hysteria and smokescreens about man made global warming coming from the decievers (governments etc), why would 179 Inventions applying for patents regarding aternative energies be denied/grabbed/stolen etc?.
Lets play a little fantasy game for a minute, i have invented a device which makes fossil fuels and reliance on them obselete, the device costs $2 a unit to make and will put an end to pollution/noise etc. ( all claims made by Dr Steven Greer at the disclosure project). As the petrolium industry alone is a 6 trillion dollar business worldwide, and most of us on here i would suspect know who are behind and control this industry, they are not going to sit back and watch their power base crumble, hence the legal grabbing and supression of real technologies coming onto the market for mankinds advancement is nicely tied up and put into the threat to National Security and censored from the market, and hey presto, the Inventions and Secrecy Act 1949 nicely covers this.
Why would authorities want a free energy, non polluting device available to billions for $2 a go? where would the 6 trillion dollar a year and all its profits and powerbase go?
To all the believers of theres no such alternate energies out there because if there was, our truth telling leaders and all their networks of intertwined cohorts would surely give up the petrolium cash cow for mankinds development are, in my opinion living in cloud cuckoo land.
Imagine, all the third world developing with this technology, no more wars for oil/resorces etc, all that money lost from arms sales, all that revenue from petrolium and fuel sales, i mean come on, i'm suprised that it was only 179 Inventions blocked/stolen etc for the year 2002/3. ( it could have been 2001/2 i forget the exact year now).
As a fellow poster says, because 9/11 is a lie dosant mean everything else is?!!!!! 
I cannot belive my eyes by the ignorance of some people, do you honestly belive that if someone has a free regenerating energy device that it could ever be allowed to reach the market by an individual who would get rich beyond their wildest dreams? The powers that be would confiscate that Invention quicker than Blair could say terrorist.
One example i will give, about 25 years ago, when i was very naieve i saw an inventor on the TV with an alternate to washing powder. The lady had some sort of ball device which would have put an end to washing powders, the patent was in process apparantly. Now this device i was led to believe would last almost forever, imagine no more washing powder and all the chemicals and nonsense etc involved in that. It could be produced for next to nothing, and what happened to it? well suprise suprise that has never materialised, how much is the never ending need for washing powder to whoever are the big players in that industry? i dont know who they are but i would bet my house the usual 'players' have their fingers in that cash cow pie. |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:48 am Post subject: |
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I agree with everything you say LongTooth. Just because the waters are muddied with cranks and crackpots (probably in the pay of governments) pretending to have miraculous inventions does not mean there are no genuine breakthroughs. The Pons and Fleichmann "cold fusion" debacle says it all. There is far more to that than meets the eye and the way it was denigrated so abruptly shows, to me at least, that powerful people want it suppressed. Fortunately it is still being researched and with some success.
The Steorn story is also interesting. Check it out if you have not heard about it. http://www.steorn.net/news/releases/ |
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Bongo
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 687
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Hi James C,
I totally agree with what you are saying, but I just want to clarify for anyone who might mistake the physics of the 4:1 ratio of-energy in to energy-out... this does not contradict the law of energy conservation (Where energy in = energy out), as the heat pump merely recoveres the already existing heat energy within the ground.
Anyway, suggest for a minute that your heat pump is run by Photo-Voltaic cells... then you have close to free energy.... Although it must be said that the manufacturing, transport, installation process remains extremely fossil fuel dependant.
There is also a new piece of legislation just out, which negates the requirement for planning permission for micro renewables on domestic households, so it must be said that things are being done to promote the use of these technology's and as with everything... in time the cost will become more affordable as the technology becomes more common.
To Long Tooth... | Quote: | | With all the hysteria and smokescreens about man made global warming coming from the decievers (governments etc), why would 179 Inventions applying for patents regarding aternative energies be denied/grabbed/stolen etc?. |
... maybe because they are proven to be dangerous? maybe they don't conform to Brittish or EN Standards? Maybe they simply just dont work? Just a thought, but it is mis-leading simply to suggest that technology is being deliberately stifled without any specific example of any piece of technology with which this has happened.
| Quote: | | I cannot belive my eyes by the ignorance of some people, do you honestly belive that if someone has a free regenerating energy device that it could ever be allowed to reach the market by an individual who would get rich beyond their wildest dreams? |
...Bill Gates among many more thousands of people have made millions from inventions! Anyway, why have none of these Scientists been enraged enough by the 'stealing' of their inventions that they just go ahead and put it on the web to expose the government? I am sure if their invention worked, news of it would spread like wild fire.
Ps. Long Tooth, Please do not resort to slandering me, this is actually quite an interesting thread. I think you are wrong to suggest that I am 'Ignorant' just because I have differing opinions from yourself and has it ever crossed your mind that you never heard of the washing machine ball again... Because it simply didn't work? I used to watch 'Tomorrows World' too... and a lot of the stuff on that never came to fruition!
Regards,
Brian. |
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James C
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Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Long Tooth wrote: | | One example i will give, about 25 years ago, when i was very naieve i saw an inventor on the TV with an alternate to washing powder. The lady had some sort of ball device which would have put an end to washing powders, the patent was in process apparantly. Now this device i was led to believe would last almost forever, imagine no more washing powder and all the chemicals and nonsense etc involved in that. It could be produced for next to nothing, and what happened to it? well suprise suprise that has never materialised, how much is the never ending need for washing powder to whoever are the big players in that industry? i dont know who they are but i would bet my house the usual 'players' have their fingers in that cash cow pie. |
Hi Long Tooth,
Actually, I'm sorry to say that you are wrong about this one. Such a device exists in several forms. We use the one I've linked below all the time and they work very well. We haven't used washing powder in years.
See here - Eco-Balls. You'll also notice that there are eco balls for tumble driers too which means there's no need to purchase drier sheets either. |
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Long Tooth
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 306
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| James C wrote: | | Long Tooth wrote: | | One example i will give, about 25 years ago, when i was very naieve i saw an inventor on the TV with an alternate to washing powder. The lady had some sort of ball device which would have put an end to washing powders, the patent was in process apparantly. Now this device i was led to believe would last almost forever, imagine no more washing powder and all the chemicals and nonsense etc involved in that. It could be produced for next to nothing, and what happened to it? well suprise suprise that has never materialised, how much is the never ending need for washing powder to whoever are the big players in that industry? i dont know who they are but i would bet my house the usual 'players' have their fingers in that cash cow pie. |
Hi Long Tooth,
Actually, I'm sorry to say that you are wrong about this one. Such a device exists in several forms. We use the one I've linked below all the time and they work very well. We haven't used washing powder in years.
See here - Eco-Balls. You'll also notice that there are eco balls for tumble driers too which means there's no need to purchase drier sheets either. |
Hello James C.
Wow, i have nearly fallen out of my chair looking at that
It certainly looks similiar to the one i saw all those years ago, except it 'only' lasts 1000 washes and costs £35ish. Still excellent value and renders bleach and powders obolete.
So much for my ranting about the powers that be,fingers in pies etc,etc, etc. 
Its made my day though, i'll be purchasing one of those beauties soon, many thanks for the link James. |
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