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mediadisbeliever
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 128
Location: North Humberside
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 Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: Gestapo Watch - Dissent=Insanity - yeah, right! |
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OK, this is a piece of news which I was not wanting to read on Yahoo and it looks like we all have to start pushing for our rights now:
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070526/tpl-uk-britain-security-47c7853 .html
So I guess it'll be case of "guilty until proven innocent". Alex Jones you were so right! |
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spiv
Validated Poster
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:37 am Post subject: 1984 here we come... |
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Yup, very scary stuff, and not one word here of any 'protections' or other 'checks and balances' available to we citizens to protect us from an overzealous copper. How has the UK descended into this abyss and not one murmer of dissent from those in power, such as our judiciary, parliamentary opposition, media and so forth??
But wait, why do we need new 'tough anti-terror' laws now? Ah, yes, three chaps (not even charged with terrorism as far as I know) absconded this week. Of course, time for more 'anti-terror' legislation. Sure I've seen this pattern before.
Can someone remind me just how many people in the UK have been killed by 'terrorists' in the, say, past five years. Something like 52 if I recall, and there are even dark suspicions that the 7/7 atrocity was the dastardly work of MI6!!! We've all more chance of being killed by a vehicular accident on the roads. |
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mediadisbeliever
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 128
Location: North Humberside
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Yeah Spiv, that's what really gets me...we have enough power crazy police without giving them even more powers. So, I can imagine when I'm in town standing around telling others that "9/11 was an Inside Job" and handing out CD's and leaflets, when along comes the local mafia police... "accompany us to the police station for further questioning",
One is now a terrorist suspect!
Time to dig the heels in and get fighting these buggers...unbelievable! |
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John White
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 3187
Location: Here to help!
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: Gestapo Watch - Dissent = Insanity, yeah, right! |
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Say new revealed "Anti Terror" Secret Police
On the same day we get to learn that up and coming Police powers will make it an offense not to tell them absolutely everything they want to know, for whatever reason they feel like, (see here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article1845196.ece )
we get this...
The implications here are truly concerning...
| Quote: | Revealed: Blair's secret stalker squad
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_artic le_id=457934&in_page_id=1770
Fears that doctors could be used to lock up terror suspects without trail
(Try FACT: Doctors already used to make "terrorists" dissapear into a black hole: being defined as anyone the state pleases, with no need for niceties like evidence JW)
by JASON LEWIS -
The Government has established a shadowy new national anti-terrorist unit to protect VIPs, with the power to detain suspects indefinitely using mental health laws.
The revelation is set to reignite the row over the Government's use of draconian measures to deal with terror suspects amid accusations they are abusing human rights.
The Fixated Threat Assessment Centre (FTAC) was quietly set up last year to identify individuals who pose a direct threat to VIPs including the Prime Minister, the Cabinet and the Royal Family.
It was given sweeping powers to check more than 10,000 suspects' files to identify mentally unstable potential killers and stalkers with a fixation against public figures.
The team's psychiatrists and psychologists then have the power to order treatment - including forcibly detaining suspects in secure psychiatric units.
Using these powers, the unit can legally detain people for an indefinite period without trial, criminal charges or even evidence of a crime being committed and with very limited rights of appeal.
Until now it has been the exclusive decision of doctors and mental health professionals to determine if someone should be forcibly detained
But the new unit uses the police to identify suspects - increasing fears the line is being blurred between criminal investigation and doctors' clinical decisions.
It also raises questions about why thousands of mentally ill individuals have been allowed back into the community - including some who have attacked and killed members of the public - while VIPs are being given special protection.
Scotland Yard, which runs the shadowy unit, refuses to discuss how many suspects have been forcibly hospitalised by the team because of "patient confidentiality".
But at least one terror suspect - allegedly linked to the 7/7 bomb plot and a suicide bombing in Israel - has already been held under the Mental Health Act.
The suspect, who was subject of a control order and cannot be named for legal reasons, later absconded from the hospital and his whereabouts are unknown.
The existence of FTAC, part of the Metropolitan Police's specialist operations department which oversees anti-terrorist investigations and royal and diplomatic protection, slipped out in the fine print of a Home Office report.
The report makes it clear FTAC is a counter-terrorism unit and says: "We aim to make the UK a harder target for terrorists by maintaining effective and efficient protective security for public figures."
NHS documents obtained by The Mail on Sunday reveal the unit's role "concerns the identification and diversion into psychiatric care of mentally ill people fixated on the prominent".
The purpose of the centre is "to evaluate and manage the risk posed to prominent people by...those who engage in inappropriate or threatening communications or behaviours in the context of abnormally intense preoccupations, many of which arise from psychotic illness."
The Mental Health Act requires two doctors or psychiatrists to approve someone's forcible detention for treatment.
So-called 'sectioning' allows a patient to be held for up to six months before a further psychological assessment. Patients are then reviewed every year to determine if they can be released.
FTAC's senior forensic psychiatrist Dr David James, who has made a study of attacks on British and European politicians by people suffering pathological fixations, is qualified to order such a detention, as are other members of his team.
Also on the staff is Robert Halsey, a consultant forensic clinical psychologist who is a specialist in risk assessment.
The centre, which is based at a secret Central London location, has a staff of four police officers, two civilian researchers, a forensic psychiatrist, a forensic psychologist and a forensic community mental health nurse. Job descriptions make it clear they implement "interventions".
Human rights activists fear the team, whose existence has never been publicised, may be being used as a way to detain suspected terrorists without having to put evidence before the courts.
It also comes amid a continuing row over proposed mental health legislation which will make it easier to 'section' someone deemed a threat to the public.
Last night human rights group Liberty said the secret unit represented a new threat to civil liberties.
Policy director Gareth Crossman said: "There is a grave danger of this being used to deal with people where there is insufficient evidence for a criminal prosecution.
"This blurs the line between medical decisions and police actions. If you are going to allow doctors to take people's liberty away, they have to be independent. That credibility is undermined when the doctors are part of the same team as the police.
"This raises serious concerns. First that you have a unit that allows police investigation to lead directly to people being sectioned without any kind of criminal proceedings.
"Secondly, it is being done under the umbrella of anti-terrorism at a time when the Government is looking at ways to detain terrorists without putting them on trial."
FTAC was set up following an NHS research programme based at Chase Farm Hospital in Enfield, Middlesex, which looked at the threat to prominent figures from "fixated" people.
The team examined thousands of cases and liaised with the FBI, the US Secret Service, the Capitol Hill Police, which protects Congressmen and Senators, and the Swedish and Norwegian secret services.
The Swedish authorities gave the team access to files on the murder of foreign minister Anna Lindh who died from multiple stab wounds after being attacked by a stalker in a Stockholm store in 2003.
The research led to FTAC being set up with a £500,000-a-year budget from the Home Office and Department of Health. NHS documents say: "It is a prototype for future joint services."
No one from FTAC was willing to talk to The Mail on Sunday last week and few Whitehall officials seemed aware of the Centre's existence.
Shadow Health Secretary Andrew Lansley said: "The Government is trying to bring in a wider definition of mental disorder and is resisting exclusions which ensure that people cannot be treated as mentally disordered on the grounds of their cultural, political or religious beliefs.
"When you hear they are also setting up something like this police unit, it raises questions about quite what their intentions are.
"The use of mental health powers of detention should be confined to the purposes of treatment. But the Government wants to be able to detain someone who is mentally disordered even when the treatment would have no benefit.
"Combined with the idea that someone could be classed as mentally ill on the grounds of their religious beliefs, it is a very worrying scenario."
Last night a Home Office spokeswoman said there was "nothing sinister" about the unit or its role in counter-terrorism.
She said: "It comes under the remit of royal and diplomatic protection and is administered by that part of the Home Office.
"Psychiatric investigations are undertaken by psychiatric professionals only. Police officers do not assess people with mental health issues. The police provide the intelligence to ensure that psychiatrists have all the information available to make an assessment.
"This is done not only to protect public figures but also to protect the person fixated with the public figure."
Details of FTAC are revealed as the Government faces a new row over its terrorist control orders after three suspects, supposedly under house arrest, absconded last week.
The suspects, who it is feared may have fled the country, include the brothers of Anthony Garcia, who was jailed last month for his role in a plot to bomb London nightclubs and shopping centres
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mediadisbeliever
Trustworthy Freedom Fighter
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 128
Location: North Humberside
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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John just realised I've posted the same news below, but it is a Yahoo UK & Ireland version.
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=9329
This is awful news now and it is what we now have to fear the most. Next they'll be banning our websites and watching our every move,...if they're not already!
Regards
Ian |
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John White
Site Admin
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 3187
Location: Here to help!
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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No worries mediadisbeliever, on this on a bit of repition is a good thing: we all need to hear about this IMO:
But its not about fear, and I can assure you I am not afraid
Its about having a realistic picture of what it is going to be required of us to resist as the jaws of this vice start to bite, and to be sure we are preparing ourselves: as well as exposing this travesty far and wide
Worst comes to the worst, see everyone inside for "The Great Escape" 
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gericom
Minor Poster
Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 59
Location: Essex. U.K.
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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It becomes more frightening and threatening by the day!
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regards, gericom |
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spiv
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Posts: 483
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gericom
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Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 59
Location: Essex. U.K.
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:52 am Post subject: |
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I can certainly see some parallels here to what is currently happening with our own country, only this time replace the word "Jew" with "Muslim".
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regards, gericom |
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Long Tooth
Moderate Poster
Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 306
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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One can be sectioned for implying that Bush and Blair et al are madmen and something should be done to stop them.
Meanwhile open public acts of mental illness, ie taking a nation to war and mass murdering millions of citizens in iraq and afghanistan, on mountains of lies will be met with silence by the mental health sectioners gestapo.
The mind boggles yet again. |
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xmasdale
Angel - now passed away
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 1959
Location: South London
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I remember that in the 1980s there was a lot of tut-tutting in Western media about political dissidents in the USSR being forcibly held in psychiatric units. Is the media in Russia now tutting at this development in the West, I wonder. |
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TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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New stop-and-question powers?
27/05/2007 21:02 - (SA)
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2119836,00.html
London - British Prime Minister Tony Blair on Sunday accused courts and parliament of putting the rights of suspects before national security as it emerged that police may get powers to stop and question people in the street.
Writing in The Sunday Times, Blair argued that the disappearance last week of three terror suspects under control orders, a form of house arrest, was due to society's mixed-up priorities rather than government mistakes.
"The fault is not with our services or, in this instance, with the Home Office (interior ministry). We have chosen as a society to put the civil liberties of the suspect, even if a foreign national, first," Blair wrote.
"I happen to believe this is misguided and wrong."
A government proposal to grant police officers powers to stop and question people under anti-terror laws also emerged on Sunday to a volley of criticism, with a member of Blair's own cabinet joining the sceptics.
Northern Ireland Secretary Peter Hain, who is running for the Labour party deputy leadership, warned that the move could become "the domestic equivalent of Guantanamo Bay".
'Legacy moment'
The laws could not be passed before Blair leaves office and hands over to Finance Minister Gordon Brown at the end of next month.
Shami Chakrabarti, of civil rights campaigners Liberty, accused Blair of "political machismo, a legacy moment".
"Stopping and questioning anyone you like will backfire because people will be being criminalised," she said.
The Sunday Times said that anyone who refused to co-operate could be charged with obstructing the police and fined up to &3163;5 000.
The measures are currently in place in Northern Ireland and Irish Premier Bertie Ahern told Sky News television that it would be "a pity" if the powers - which had been due to be ditched there - were kept on.
Elsewhere in Britain, police currently have the power to stop and search individuals on "reasonable grounds for suspicion" that they have committed an offence but have no rights to ask for their identity and movements.
The proposal came after three men on control orders - Lamine and Ibrahim Adam, aged 26 and 20, and Cerie Bullivant, 24 - went on the run on Tuesday.
The Adams pair are the brothers of Anthony Garcia, 25, who was imprisoned last month for his role in a fertiliser bomb plot aimed at attacking targets in London and across Britain.
Blair's government stepped up its approach to terrorism after the US attacks on 9/11 and again after four British-born Islamist suicide bombers killed 52 commuters and injured hundreds of others in London on July 7 2005.
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http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
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