Permalink 03:20:36 am, Categories: Voices, 1200 words
And Then There Was One, The Final Holdout: 9-11
Reggie, Contributing Editor, TvNewsLIES.org
Not to worry, this is not about truth seekers or conspiracy theories. It’s not about the long list of anomalies and discrepancies in the official story of 9/11. It’s not even about the undeniable fact that the events of 9/11 gave George Bush and his handlers the keys to the neocon kingdom of empire. It really is not.
What it’s about is the strangest phenomenon I can recall in my entire adult life. It’s about what I perceive to be an extraordinary lapse in the logic of millions of otherwise sensible Americans. And it’s about something I cannot wrap my mind around, no matter how I try. Maybe someone out there can help me understand what’s going on.
In preface, let me also say that this is not about being uninformed. Granted, the corporate media have suppressed any discussion, debate or investigative reporting about the attacks on the United States that purportedly ‘changed everything.’ That reality aside, even the most fawn-like pundits on the airwaves understand that the ship of state is sinking, and that it is time to challenge the lies of this administration. But, it seems that lie after lie has become fair game for disclosure, or at least for some discussion at this point. As a result, each day, the American people in larger and larger numbers understand that they have been taken for a terrible and costly ride by the lies they were told by this President and his cohorts.
That is, every lie but one.
Finally, nearly seven years after a stolen election that was itself based on lies, greater numbers of Americans are no longer blindly accepting the talking points emanating from the White House as the Gospel truth. In more and more media outlets the Bush lies are openly being identified as such, - rather than by every other euphemism meant to soften the ugliness of a government lying to its people. If people are not totally convinced, at least they hear debates and discussions and competing viewpoints. If nothing else, they are beginning to have doubts about the daily mantras that had them mesmerized for so long.
So let’s take a look at just the short list of these lies, so as better to understand my dilemma about the lone holdout: 9/11. Bear with me:
At this point in time, many, if not most Americans know that the men and women in the Bush White House clearly and deliberately LIED to them, both by omission and commission about:
- The Bush connection to the bin Laden family.
- Escorting dozens of members of the bin Laden family out of US after 9/11
- The Patriot Act having been written decades before 9/11
- The call for a ‘new Pearl Harbor’ by the neocons who orchestrated the wars
- A totally invalid and false connection between Iraq and the ‘War on Terror
- Regular, politically timed terror alerts
- Toxic air quality at Ground Zero after 9/11
- The ‘junk science’ of Global Warming and its effects around the globe
- WH orders to suppress and politicize reports on by the Surgeon General
- Plans for wars with Iraq and Afghanistan that were made before 9/11
- Saddam Hussein’s possession of WMD
- Saddam Hussein’s connection to Al Qaeda
- Saddam Hussein’s involvement in 9/11
- Saddam Hussein’s threat to the US or his neighbors
- Having NO plans for an extended occupation of Iraq or for keeping the peace
- Inadequate armor and supplies for our men and women in uniform
- Supposed ‘progress’ in Iraq, time after time
- Fudged numbers of civilian deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq
- The staged ‘toppling’ of Saddam’s statue
- The staged rescue of Jessica Lynch
- The lies about Pat Tillman’s death by friendly fire
- Illegal warrantless spying on US citizens
- Torture at Abu Ghraib and other prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan
- Rendition of detainees to other countries for torture
- Outing Valerie Plame as a CIA operative
- White House involvement in the firing of federal prosecutors…
There are so many more lies to list, but I think you get the idea.
Am I wrong to believe that in any other life situation there would be a different reaction to a series of important lies? If you became aware that your plumber or your neighbor or your doctor, or anyone at all in your life lied to you over and over and over about issues that were relevant to your well being, would you ever again believe ANYTHING that person said to you? I really don’t think so.
So, after becoming aware of lie after lie after lie by Bushco, why would anyone in his or her right mind FULLY EMBRACE THE OFFICIAL STORY OF WHAT HAPPENED ON 9/11 WITHOUT A SINGLE QUESTION? Why would anyone in the United Sates of America conclude that the official version of the most important event in recent American history AS TOLD BY PROVEN LIARS is true?
Help me out here, please.
It makes no sense to me at all. Especially, since the most telling part of all this illogic is this: NONE OF THE LIES ON THE ABOVE LIST WOULD HAVE BEEN NECESSARY OR EVEN POSSIBLE WERE IT NOT FOR AN UNSWERVING ACCEPTANCE BY MOST AMERICANS OF THE OFFICIAL VERSION OF 9/11.
Bottom line: I fully understand how difficult it is to believe anything other than the official government story of 9/11. The editor of TvNewsLIES.org has examined the reasons behind the refusal of so many Americans to believe the mounds of evidence that challenge the credibility of the story we have been told. Fine and good.
But, frankly, for the purpose of this article, your personal opinion about who was responsible for 9/11 is irrelevant. It makes no difference at all. What matters is that we examine the strange illogic that stops millions of Americans from questioning a possible lie – one that may matter more than any other. These same Americans now seem willing to openly question many of the lies that are told and repeated ad nauseam by the President and his clan. They are now for more skeptical about their messages and far more hesitant to believe anything George W. Bush tells them in his speeches and press conferences.
But they still will not consider for a moment that the official story of 9/11 as told by this lying government may also be a lie. Ergo, the illogic I cannot understand..
The official story of 9/11 has been told by professional, experienced, and successful liars.
Think about that as you try to explain the need to believe it.
Maybe it will take another 9/11, as we’ve recently been warned may happen very soon, to convince Americans that the most egregious and damaging of all the lies told by the Bush administration must not remain off limits.
We really have few choices left. We have to reach that logical moment when we can openly discuss and debate and examine the available information about 9/11, no matter what the outcome may be. We have to retrieve our collective abilities to examine the events of that day. Perhaps, then, we finally can say about the lies we have heard….:
The answer is clearly because despite strenuous efforts, no one has managed to show that the official story of 9/11 is a lie.
The real question is why, given that the USA is one of the most open societies in the world, when all those matters listed have been exposed, when the main stream media have picked over them all, when the government has proved so completely unable to keep them quiet, some people believe in spite of that, they could be so completely successful in hiding their responsibility for 9/11, that not one part of the original plot or extensive efforts to cover it up, involving FEMA, NIST, all the mainstream media, the BBC, etc etc has ever been revealed, not a whistle-blower has come forward, and the government can convince any number of people to co-operate in a plot to murder their fellow citizens. That really is puzzling.
The answer is clearly because despite strenuous efforts, no one has managed to show that the official story of 9/11 is a lie.
The real question is why, given that the USA is one of the most open societies in the world, when all those matters listed have been exposed, when the main stream media have picked over them all, when the government has proved so completely unable to keep them quiet, some people believe ......
What a strange parallel universe you must live in Bushwacker.
The answer is clearly because despite strenuous efforts, no one has managed to show that the official story of 9/11 is a lie.
The real question is why, given that the USA is one of the most open societies in the world, when all those matters listed have been exposed, when the main stream media have picked over them all, when the government has proved so completely unable to keep them quiet, some people believe ......
What a strange parallel universe you must live in Bushwacker.
The only reason we know about these matters is that they have been exposed, is that not the case? The US is a society so open that one President was unable to keep private even secret recordings made in his own office, you may remember.
Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 577 Location: Yorkshire
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: Here's something really simple
Bushwacker wrote:
The answer is clearly because despite strenuous efforts, no one has managed to show that the official story of 9/11 is a lie...
Here's something really simple. No complicated theories but it speaks for itself. Watch it all the way through and then come back and tell me that the official version of events isn’t a lie if you can!
Well, if you do say that the official story isn’t a lie after watching this, you must be in serious denial!
Ah, the amazing use of information from a flight data recorder recovered from plane wreckage at the Pentagon to prove no plane hit the Pentagon!
As previously discussed, this depends on the data being accurate and correctly interpreted, neither of which are necessarily true. Since a large number of witness saw an airliner hit the Pentagon, plane wreckage was found there, the light poles and generator show a large plane flew very low, and the DNA of those on the plane was matched to human remains found, the evidence that flight 77 hit the Pentagon is overwhelming.
Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 577 Location: Yorkshire
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject:
Bushwacker wrote:
Ah, the amazing use of information from a flight data recorder recovered from plane wreckage at the Pentagon to prove no plane hit the Pentagon!
As previously discussed, this depends on the data being accurate and correctly interpreted, neither of which are necessarily true. Since a large number of witness saw an airliner hit the Pentagon, plane wreckage was found there, the light poles and generator show a large plane flew very low, and the DNA of those on the plane was matched to human remains found, the evidence that flight 77 hit the Pentagon is overwhelming.
As I thought, you didn't even bother to watch it (or are completely thick, so I will presume you didn't watch it).
So why do you think the mainstream media hasn't picked this story up and probed the NTSB/FBI to analyse the data themselves? Or show the wreckage matched to plane parts to prove that it was actually Flight 77 that hit? Why are they like a dog with a bone over certain topics but refuse to touch 9/11? Come to think of it, why don't they mention that a huge heap of airliner fitted into a mighty small hole, conveniently folding up its wings so as to not make too much of a mess. After all, it is you who claim that there is a free press, many of us already know it isn't.
So why do you think the mainstream media hasn't picked this story up and probed the NTSB/FBI to analyse the data themselves? Or show the wreckage matched to plane parts to prove that it was actually Flight 77 that hit? Why are they like a dog with a bone over certain topics but refuse to touch 9/11? Come to think of it, why don't they mention that a huge heap of airliner fitted into a mighty small hole, conveniently folding up its wings so as to not make too much of a mess. After all, it is you who claim that there is a free press, many of us already know it isn't.
Because they regard it as beyond doubt that flight 77 hit the Pentagon, as reasonable people do. The Sunday Sport might run the NPT or beam weapons in a dull week, I suppose.
Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 577 Location: Yorkshire
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:39 pm Post subject: They must find it difficult..
Try again.
Bushwacker wrote:
Ah, the amazing use of information from a flight data recorder recovered from plane wreckage at the Pentagon to prove no plane hit the Pentagon!
The fight data was obtained under the freedom of information act. Whether the data came from wreckage at the Pentagon may be official the claim but it is their data, not ours, which contradicts the official story.
Quote:
As previously discussed, this depends on the data being accurate and correctly interpreted, neither of which are necessarily true.
The data interprets itself. Why would they doctor the flight data to incriminate themselves? It does appear to be doctored but this is in an apparent effort to hide the real height of the plane as it was descending.
Quote:
Since a large number of witness saw an airliner hit the Pentagon, plane wreckage was found there
There was a small amount of wreckage but it has not been proved that it belonged to a Boeing airliner. The video does not deny that a plane was headed towards the Pentagon, nor does it deny that something hit the Pentagon. But the flight data which was supposed to be of flight 77 was about 300 feet too high to hit the Pentagon! If you had watched the video you would have seen why the plane was about 300 feet too high.
Sigh. When on the runway the Altimeter is set to the local air pressure but once a plane gets to 18,000, it is reset to a universal setting. This is practice is done for all planes and sure enough the flight data shows that as the plane goes past 18,000 feet, the Altimeter is reset to the universal number, not a local setting. This has to be done because local air pressure varies from place to place. Make any sense yet?
However, the flight data shows that on decent when dropping below 18,000, the Altimeter does not appear to have been reset to the new local pressure, so it’s still at the universal setting. Got it so far?
So this makes that the plane appear to be lower than it actually was. It looks like that part of the data has been modified in an effort to make the plane look to be lower. Even if we argue that they simply forgot to reset the Altimeter, it is still showing that the plane was actually about 300 feet too high to hit the Pentagon.
Apart from that, the data shows that the plane is coming in at a different angle, as well as it being on a different path, to knock down those light poles - as was confirmed by several eyewitnesses, including police officers where were at a filling station near the Pentagon. They saw the plane come in at the left of the filling station but the light poles are to the right.
Quote:
the light poles and generator show a large plane flew very low
How low is very low? About 300 feet?
The eyewitnesses and the flight data accurately confirm each other that the plane was coming in at a different path than the official story said. If that part of the flight data was false, are we to suppose they would know what was on the data in advance??
This shows that you didn’t bother to watch the video or are in complete denial, or both. Therefore after I have posted this reply, there is no point in arguing with you any further. You can keep on repeating over and over that there is no evidence against the official story but it should now be very obvious to everyone, that you are not being objective at all.
Quote:
and the DNA of those on the plane was matched to human remains found, the evidence that flight 77 hit the Pentagon is overwhelming.
So what are you saying, that some hijackers (who were not listed on the flight manifest sheet) volunteered DNA tests so they could carry out a hijack? Why would they do that? Even the BBC said that many of them were still alive after 911! Perhaps we should ask them again for DNA tests, to prove that they were killed? Who’s word do we have that the DNA matched these guys who are still alive? Where did that information come from? Don’t bother yourself answering because…
"They must find it difficult... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey
....
Last edited by truthseeker john on Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:30 pm; edited 3 times in total
The data does not of course interpret itself, that is nonsense. In this case it is being interpreted by people who are trying to prove a point, which of course makes it suspect. The data may very well be inaccurate anyway, as you have shown in the case of the resetting of the altimeter. Whatever happened, the plane was not at 300 feet, no one saw that, so any instrument or interpretation of data that indicates that it was is in error in some shape or form.
The police officers say they saw it in one position where it could not have hit the poles, other witnesses saw it hit the poles. The poles were knocked down, no one saw anything else knock the poles down, so the police seem to have been mistaken about the position. They were very certain the plane hit the Pentagon, but I suppose you want to say they were mistaken about that.
The hijackers were on the flight manifest, as shown as an exhibit at the Moussaoui trial, they were not on the lists of victims published in the media.
The original BBC piece saying some were alive was sloppy journalism, confusing people with similar names and so on. It was quickly shown to be nonsense and has been retracted.
A team of 50 forensic specialists identified the DNA, no doubt all in on the plot like the NTSB , FEMA and NIST, every man-jack of them.
So why do you think the mainstream media hasn't picked this story up and probed the NTSB/FBI to analyse the data themselves? Or show the wreckage matched to plane parts to prove that it was actually Flight 77 that hit? Why are they like a dog with a bone over certain topics but refuse to touch 9/11? Come to think of it, why don't they mention that a huge heap of airliner fitted into a mighty small hole, conveniently folding up its wings so as to not make too much of a mess. After all, it is you who claim that there is a free press, many of us already know it isn't.
Because they regard it as beyond doubt that flight 77 hit the Pentagon, as reasonable people do. The Sunday Sport might run the NPT or beam weapons in a dull week, I suppose.
The doubt is the FDR - how can it be beyond doubt when the FDR has been analysed and shown to not match the "official" path. Without a proper crash investigation, as any reasonable person would agree, there has to be doubt.
Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 577 Location: Yorkshire
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject:
Bushwacker wrote:
The data does not of course interpret itself, that is nonsense. In this case it is being interpreted by people who are trying to prove a point, which of course makes it suspect. The data may very well be inaccurate anyway, as you have shown in the case of the resetting of the altimeter. Whatever happened, the plane was not at 300 feet, no one saw that, so any instrument or interpretation of data that indicates that it was is in error in some shape or form.
The height was confirmed by on-board Radar. WATCH THE VIDEO!
So why do you think the mainstream media hasn't picked this story up and probed the NTSB/FBI to analyse the data themselves? Or show the wreckage matched to plane parts to prove that it was actually Flight 77 that hit? Why are they like a dog with a bone over certain topics but refuse to touch 9/11? Come to think of it, why don't they mention that a huge heap of airliner fitted into a mighty small hole, conveniently folding up its wings so as to not make too much of a mess. After all, it is you who claim that there is a free press, many of us already know it isn't.
Because they regard it as beyond doubt that flight 77 hit the Pentagon, as reasonable people do. The Sunday Sport might run the NPT or beam weapons in a dull week, I suppose.
The doubt is the FDR - how can it be beyond doubt when the FDR has been analysed and shown to not match the "official" path. Without a proper crash investigation, as any reasonable person would agree, there has to be doubt.
Why would anyone accept an analysis of the FDR data carried out by people determined to find anomalies in it? It is as valid as analysis of video footage carried out by no-planers. The purpose of air crash investigation is to determine the cause of the crash for future benefit; when the cause of the crash is known criminal activity, as in this case, there is no point to the process.
The data does not of course interpret itself, that is nonsense. In this case it is being interpreted by people who are trying to prove a point, which of course makes it suspect. The data may very well be inaccurate anyway, as you have shown in the case of the resetting of the altimeter. Whatever happened, the plane was not at 300 feet, no one saw that, so any instrument or interpretation of data that indicates that it was is in error in some shape or form.
The height was confirmed by on-board Radar. WATCH THE VIDEO!
The plane was clearly not at 300 feet, no one saw that, so any instrument or interpretation of data that indicates that it was, must be in error in some shape or form.
There are many postings by Anti-sophist on the JREF forum exploring the technical issues that arise, which I do not begin to understand, however it is clear that interpreting the FDR data is a highly complex operation, it is certainly not the case that the FDR can be simply said to show information.
So why do you think the mainstream media hasn't picked this story up and probed the NTSB/FBI to analyse the data themselves? Or show the wreckage matched to plane parts to prove that it was actually Flight 77 that hit? Why are they like a dog with a bone over certain topics but refuse to touch 9/11? Come to think of it, why don't they mention that a huge heap of airliner fitted into a mighty small hole, conveniently folding up its wings so as to not make too much of a mess. After all, it is you who claim that there is a free press, many of us already know it isn't.
Because they regard it as beyond doubt that flight 77 hit the Pentagon, as reasonable people do. The Sunday Sport might run the NPT or beam weapons in a dull week, I suppose.
The doubt is the FDR - how can it be beyond doubt when the FDR has been analysed and shown to not match the "official" path. Without a proper crash investigation, as any reasonable person would agree, there has to be doubt.
Why would anyone accept an analysis of the FDR data carried out by people determined to find anomalies in it? It is as valid as analysis of video footage carried out by no-planers. The purpose of air crash investigation is to determine the cause of the crash for future benefit; when the cause of the crash is known criminal activity, as in this case, there is no point to the process.
Wow you are so trusting. Even though there is no proof that Flight 77 was ever anywhere near the Pentagon, you don't seem to think that an analysis of the FDR is worth doing?
When you look at a pre-collapse photo of the Pentagon, do you think a very large plane has just crashed there? When I say "you" I do mean "you" and not some official website that you are about to borrow the text from. Wouldn't you expect a larger hole? And if not a larger hole, then some plane wreckage?
Bushwacker believes in laws of physics that have large Boeing jets instantly and almost completely vaporizing when they hit solid objects so as to leave very little fragments. Or else he thinks aluminium is so elastic that 124ft10in wide wings neatly fold back, get sucked into holes 16ft wide and then get turned into confetti inside the building.
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/6.jpg
When you look at a pre-collapse photo of the Pentagon, do you think a very large plane has just crashed there? When I say "you" I do mean "you" and not some official website that you are about to borrow the text from. Wouldn't you expect a larger hole? And if not a larger hole, then some plane wreckage?
At first I might, then when I read about the construction of the Pentagon it becomes clear why the hole is not larger. I would expect plane wreckage, and indeed there is plane wreckage.
Bushwacker believes in laws of physics that have large Boeing jets instantly and almost completely vaporizing when they hit solid objects so as to leave very little fragments. Or else he thinks aluminium is so elastic that 124ft10in wide wings neatly fold back, get sucked into holes 16ft wide and then get turned into confetti inside the building.
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/6.jpg
No, I do not believe in large Boeings instantly vapourising, I believe in the main fuselage of the plane with longtidutional spars piercing the walls like a giant spear, I believe in the heavy parts of plane penetrating the building, I believe in the wings impacting on the walls and leaving clear evidence that they did so, and I believe in the pieces of aluminium all over the lawn were pieces of plane. I believe all those witnesses who saw a large plane hit the Pentagon, I believe the lamp posts did not self destruct and I believe the generator was hit by something very heavy at high speed, like the engine of the jet.
Freefall collapse Bushwhacker. That trumps anything. P*ss off.
There was no freefall collapse. Your attempts to show it depend on the times you quote from NIST not being not collapse times for the buildings, but the times for the first panels to strike the ground, a convenient "mistake".
Your attempt to explain debris falling faster than the collapse zone fails entirely. All the debris comes FROM the collapse zone, not from the top of the building as you "mistakenly" take it, so the fact that it falls faster than the collapse zone progresses, demonstrates conclusively that the collapse zone is moving slower than free-fall speed.
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