So who really were involved?

[stateofgrace]

Is this what you really believe ?

1. It is all a conspiracy
2. Everybody who says not is lying
3. They are liberating the masses from oppression
4. The US is turning into a Nazi type , fascist state
5. It was all stage acted
6. It is a show purely for their benefit
7. They saw it all.
8. They know it all
9. They are demolition experts
10. They are building experts
11. They are civil engineering experts
12. They are structural engineering experts
13. They understand fires
14. They understand how metal reacts to fires
15. They are seasoned researchers
16. They know more than anybody else regarding the above
17. They are flight engineering experts
18. They are qualified pilots
19. They are more qualified than anybody who maybe
20. All the evidence is there, but only they spotted it.
21. It is their duty to inform the less informed
22. NIST are lying
23. FEMA are lying
24. The FBI are lying
25. The CIA is lying.
26. NASA are lying
27. NORAD are lying
28. NEADS are lying
29. FAA are lying
30. The aircraft crash investigators are lying
31. The 9/11 commission are lying
32. The eyewitnesses are lying
33. The NY firemen are lying
34. The NY policemen are lying
35. The NY authorities are lying
36. The American Institute of Civil Engineers are lying
37. The Society of Fire Protection Engineers are lying
38. The American Institute of Steel Construction are lying
39. The Structural Engineers Association of New York are lying
40. The Port Authority of NY is lying.
41. The Mayor’s Office of Emergency Management of NY are lying
42. The New York City Department of Design and Construction are lying.
43. The Fire Department of New York are lying
44. Bush is lying.
45. Cheney is lying
46. Rumsfild is lying.
47. Rice is lying
48. Infact the entire US Government is lying
49. Siverstein is lying
50. All the Institutes of civil engineering from across the planet are lying
51. All the Institutes of structural engineering are lying
52. All the Institutes of fire/Safety engineers are lying
53. All the Institutes of demolition engineers are lying
54. Larry Mitchell is lying
55. John Ashcroft is lying
56. Ahmad Umar Sheikh, who funded the hijackers is lying
57. General Mahmoud Ahmad who ordered him to do so is lying
58. Rudolph Giuliani is lying
59. Khalid Al-Sheikh Mohammed is lying
60. Ramzi Bin Al-Sheeba is lying
61. Yosri Fouda is lying , as he interviewed the two above who planned it
62. Bin laden is lying.
63. Bin Laden is telling the truth
64. Bin laden is maybe telling the truth or lying which ever parts they believe
65. The main stream media is lying.
66. All the people who did the insider trading prior to 9/11 are lying
67. All the people who didn't turn up to work because they were forewarned are lying
68. Moussaoui is innocent
69. Moussaoui is just an armless loonie who wouldn't hurt anybody.
70. Popular Mechanics are lying
71. All the people who planted the explosives are keeping quiet.
72. All the people who detonated the explosives are keeping quiet
73. All the people who planted evidence are keeping quiet.
74. All the people who removed evidence are keeping quiet.
75. All the people who actually killed the passengers are keeping quiet
76. All the people who researched the Towers to find where best to place the explosives are keeping quiet
77. All the people who produced the fake Bin Laden tapes are keeping quiet
78. Al Quada is make believe
79. The 19 hijackers are infact still alive
80. Actors played their parts
81. The desperate phone calls from the flights were faked
82. The Voice recording from flight 93 was tapered with
83. Flight 77 landed somewhere else, but did not crash into the Pentagon
84. Flight 93 was shot down despite the fact the military was not made aware of this flight until 10 minutes after it had crashed
85. Flight 93 landed somewhere else, maybe Cleveland
86. Many of the “alleged” victims from the flights are still alive.
87. Northwood proves the conspiracy, even though it was made public years ago.
88. Universal Studios are now part of the conspiracy
89. " United 93" the movie is a pack of lies
90. All the researchers for this movie got it wrong
91. The cast, some of whom were the actual people involved are lying
92. All the people depicted in this movie are lying.
93. The pilots who shot down Flight93 are lying
94. The people who planted all the evidence on the ground to make it look like a plane crash are lying
95. The people who confiscated the cctv footage at the Pentagon are all keeping quiet
96. The people who planned all the evidence at the Pentagon are all keeping quiet
97. The people who planted the black boxes at the Pentagon are lying
98. The Forensic scientists who identified all but a few of the victims at the Pentagon are lying.
99. The people who knocked over the lampposts to make it look like a large fixed wing aircraft flew by and hit the Pentagon are all keeping quiet.
100. The who planted all the DNA at the crash sites are all keeping quiet

[John White]

[stateofgrace]

Oh I see so the rest is correct ?

[John White]

The rest is subjective: in my opinion

Not too complicated, is it?

[scubadiver]

As far as Number 31 is concerned I am currently reading "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and distortions" by David Griffin.

That report was a whitewash in which the conclusions were pre-selected and the evidence was either changed or omitted to suit these conclusions.

Very good read, IMO.

[Jayhawk]

101. State of Grace is putting a whole lot of work into this.

[conspiracy analyst]

It isn't a conspiracy it is exactly as is stated by the media, the politicians and yourself.

Funny though that the majority of people dont believe the official 'non-conspiratorial' versions, as there are more than one.

What can we conclude from that? The sum of most peoples opinions are more 'backward' than the directors of govt agencies you supplied?

Or these agencies being an extreme minority have access to one and only truth even if it is presented in various versions?

Either which way you are in a conundrum diificult to solve as you have presented the views of less than 200 people.

Unless of course their position in society and their role increases their views to become a majority even when they are in an extreme minority?

[scar]

[stav]

people sog is not a waste of spce he is just trying to put his point across, dont mock him as we are mocked on other sites. be open minded and debate with everyone, dont call names as you are lowering yourselves and others opinions of 911 truth.

sog on your theory of arguments is that 48% of the 70 million people asked by zogby are all lying too then?

[blackcat]

Stateof grace - is this what you really believe?


1. It is not a conspiracy (WTC7 collapse, missing plane at Pentagon, molten steel weeks after 9/11, Norad stood down, etc etc)
2. Everybody who says it is a conspiracy is lying (that's a lot of people!!!)
3. They are not attempting to oppress the masses - not just in Iraq but at home with the Patriot act etc.
4. The USA is NOT turning into a Nazi type ,fascist state
5. It was not stage acted !! (Norad alone!!!)
6. It is not a show purely for their benefit ("put" options prior to 9/11, insurance against terror attack JUST taken out, $2.3 trillion missing 9/10)
7. They did not see it all. (They arranged it!!!)
8. They did not know it all after having arranged it!!
9. They do not know any demolition experts. (The "dancing Israelis")
10. There are no building experts who question the official fairy tale
11. There are no civil engineering experts who do likewise.
12. There are no structural engineering experts who question the official account.
13. There is something complicated about fires so we must not question the official report.
14. Only government officials understand how metal reacts to fires. So anyone else however well qualified does not count.
15. They are not seasoned researchers - after five years!!!
16. They are not perfectly able to listen to any dissenting voices from experts regarding the above
17. There are no flight engineering experts who disagree with the government
18. There are no qualified pilots who laugh at the official reports of amazing piloting and disappearing airplanes
19. The government spokespeople are more qualified than anybody who dares disagree. The same government that did the wicked deed!!
20. All the evidence is there, but since only tens of millions have spotted it it should be disregarded in favour of a whitewash report
21. It is our duty to shut up
22. NIST, a government agency, are not lying
23. FEMA, a government agency,are not lying
24. The FBI, a government agency, are not lying
25. The CIA, a government agency noted for its lying, is not lying.
26. NASA, a government agency, are not lying
27. NORAD, a government agency, are not lying
28. NEADS, a government agency, are not lying
29. FAA, a government agency, are not lying
30. The aircraft crash investigators, appointed reluctantly by the government, are not lying
31. The 9/11 commission, a government agency, are not lying
32. The eyewitnesses who saw explosions and heard bombs going off are lying. The commentators who saw no evidence of a plane at the Pentagon are lying
33. The NY firemen are lying when they said they saw explosions like a "controlled demolition" at the wtc
34. The NY policemen are lying when they also reported a series of explosions
35. The NY authorities, a government agency, are not lying
36. The American Institute of Civil Engineers,government controlled, were given adequate access to the site
37. The Society of Fire Protection Engineers, government controlled, were given adequate access to the site
38. The American Institute of Steel Construction were given access to the steel for examination
39. The Structural Engineers Association of New York were given access to the steel to determine if explosives had been used
40. The Port Authority of NY, a government agency, is not lying. Its employees are allowed to speak about 9/11
41. The Mayor’s Office of Emergency Management of NY are not lying
42. The New York City Department of Design and Construction are not lying.
43. The Fire Department of New York are able to speak out
44. Bush is NOT lying.
45. Cheney is NOT lying
46. Rumsfild is NOT lying.
47. Rice is NOT lying
48. Infact the entire US Government is NOT lying
49. Siverstein is NOT lying
50. All the Institutes of civil engineering from across the planet have given their opinions
51. All the Institutes of structural engineering have expressed any opinion
52. All the Institutes of fire/Safety engineers are free to express their honest opinions
53. All the Institutes of demolition engineers have had anything to say
54. Larry Mitchell is not lying
55. John Ashcroft is not lying
56. Ahmad Umar Sheikh, who allegedly funded the alleged hijackers is real
57. General Mahmoud Ahmad ordered him to do so
58. Rudolph Giuliani, the lying liar who tells lies, is NOT lying
59. Khalid Al-Sheikh Mohammed is not lying
60. Ramzi Bin Al-Sheeba is not lying
61. Yosri Fouda is not lying , as he says he interviewed the two above who allegedly (according to the fairytale) planned it
62. Bin laden did it.
63. Bin Laden did not do it
64. Bin laden is maybe telling the truth or lying which ever parts you believe
65. The main stream media is not lying and is not evading this issue.
66. All the people who did the insider trading prior to 9/11 do not exist
67. No-one was forewarned
68. Moussaoui is guilty - not just a patsy
69. Moussaoui is just an armless loonie who wouldn't hurt anybody.
70. Popular Mechanics are not lying when cousin Michael joins just before they print their tripe.
71. All the people who planted the explosives are going to blab about it
72. All the people who detonated the explosives are going to blab about it
73. All the people who planted evidence are going to blab about it
74. All the people who removed evidence are going to blab about it.
75. All the people who actually killed the passengers are going to blab about it
76. All the people who researched the Towers to find where best to place the explosives are going to blab about it
77. All the people who produced the fake Bin Laden tapes are going to blab about it
78. Al Quada is a major threat
79. There were 19 hijackers and it was them wot done it
80. Nobody pretended anything especially Silverstein and Giuliani
81. There were desperate phone calls from flights
82. The Voice recording from flight 93 was not tampered with. It is reasonable for all those other black boxes to disappear
83. Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon
84. Flight 93 was not shot down despite the fact the wreckage is spread over 5 miles and more
85. Flight 93 landed somewhere else
86. There were no inconsistencies in the passenger lists
87. Northwood proves anything
88. Universal Studios are not responsible for a blatant piece of propaganda based on suppostion and imagined events within the plane
89. " United 93" the movie is not a pack of blatant disinformation lionizing the passengers who were in fact shot out of the sky
90. All the researchers for this movie got it right when they have an agenda to push the official version and make money appealing to jingoism
91. The cast, one of whom was denied entry in to the USA on "terrorist" laws, make any difference to whether it is true or false since none of them were on board where all the contentious events take place
92. All the people depicted in this movie are depicted truthfully. The cowardly German and the heroic Americans. Even though they were obviously shot down
93. The pilot who shot down Flight93 is allowed to state so publicly
94. People did not plant any evidence on the ground to make it look like a plane crash
95. The people who confiscated the cctv footage at the Pentagon are letting us see the video footage
96. The people who planned all the evidence at the Pentagon are all going to start blabbing
97. The people who planted the black boxes at the Pentagon are not lying even though it is obvious that a 747 did not crash there
98. The Forensic scientists who identified all but a few of the victims at the Pentagon are capable of performing magic
99. The lampposts knocked over near the Pentagon were hit by a 747 which then dissolved along with its engines.
100.The people who planted all the DNA at the crash sites are all going to start blabbing


Try to get this in your mind. You believe one set of "facts" - those given by the government. Most here believe the government is lying. Asking repeatedy do we believe if people in the pay of the government are lying is therefore pointless. The answer is YES - that is why we are here!!

[scar]