David Shayler on islam channel

[TRUTH]

http://www.islamchannel.tv/

[Keith Mothersson]

Hi, David, and others,
Although most of what David said was, as usual, pretty spot on, I am concerned that David is putting some things in a way which could get him - and us by association - successfully tarred with the brush of anti-semitism.

(I say successfully - because I know anyone who critiques Israel and Zionism will be accused of anti-semitism sooner or later. I don't believe David is anti-semitic, just very aware of the misdeeds of Mossad, for example, among other intelligence agencies, but much more active and daring then most of them for perfectly understandable political-sociological and historical reasons. )

On the Islam chanel discussion I think it would have been more skilful for David, when referring to global banker-power- and if he had to characterise it as Zionist, to have added something to the effect that a huge amount of money power and corporate control which supports Zionism is actually Christian Zionist, not Jewish. Also we all need to keep reminding people that for a long time the majority of Jews opposed Zionism, and that many still do, while others would speak out much more in Jewish community organisations except that they are aware of the pretty heavy social and possibly financial or worse sanctions which the extreme Zionists mete out to 'self-hating Jews', 'arab-lovers', etc.

This is an important issue which we need to get right otherwise we are going to set ourselves up for failure, disunity, infiltration from fasists, etc.

[kbo234]

[Ann Johnson]

For those of us who didn't hear this show, is there a record of it anywhere? After all, it would seem unfair to criticise anyone such as David if we don't know for sure what he said? Misrepresentation is a bad thing practised by those in power--we should not copy them, even if unintentionally.

[andyb]

A recent Mr Fisk article re anti-semitism. Note the changing of the Webster's International dictionary meaning in the US, scary stuff.

[Wokeman]

In spite of Keith's comments, I feel that if people feel that Israel deserves to be criticised for its policies that it has adopted towards the Palestinian people, then so be it. If others choose to invoke inappropiate accusations of anti-semitism in reply that's their business. However, it does not help their case one iota.

[Keith Mothersson]

Israel's occupation is utterly abhorrent, but there are also political currents out there who would want to use the term 'Zionist' as a stalking horse for old-fashioned Nazi style anti-semitism, people who often had good enough ideas about social credit, or green local self-sufficiency, but who got captured into a conspiracist mindset which saw the jews as behind every social problem.

I think it important to see the so-called 'Christian' and imperialist uses of Zionism, israel and the discourse of 'anti-semitism' - and to avoid inadvertently stoking the fires of 'racial' interpretations based on the supposed 'essential natures' of 'the eternal jew', etc. None of which David was either saying or thinking but some of his listeners might have been, and besides, although Zionism is a form of racism (imo) so is anti-semitism, and we need to be sympathetic with genuine fears about the latter, even as we also robustly critique the former.

Alan Hart's book, Zionism, the Enemy of the Jews, is worth a read.

[John White]