Is German Culpability for Nazism a myth?

[blackbear]

WW2....who really was the Aggressor.....?

The 2nd World War: The Sequence of Aggression

One of the great mysteries of life is that despite the evidence to the contrary millions of otherwise intelligent people still believe that Germany was the all powerful aggressor during the 2nd World War. Nothing better than these myths illustrate the mind-bending power of propaganda. The provable facts suggest that Germany was the victim and not the perpetrator of naked neighboring aggression. The subsequent allied military triumph was followed by the triumph of the propagandists whose pressing need was to depict the victor nations as being the victim.

THE BRUTISH EMPIRE:
"Germany is too strong. We must destroy her."
- Winston Churchill, Nov. 1936.

"In no country has the historical blackout been more intense and effective than in Great Britain. Here it has been ingeniously christened The Iron Curtain of Discreet Silence. Virtually nothing has been written to reveal the truth about British responsibility for the Second World War and its disastrous results.” - Harry Elmer Barnes. American Historian

"The war was not just a matter of the elimination of Fascism in Germany, but rather of obtaining German sales markets." - Winston Churchill. March, 1946.

"Britain was taking advantage of the situation to go to war against Germany because the Reich had become too strong and had upset the European balance." - Ralph F. Keeling, Institute of American Economics

"I emphasized that the defeat of Germany and Japan and their elimination from world trade would give Britain a tremendous opportunity to swell her foreign commerce in both volume and profit." - Samuel Untermeyer, The Public Years, p.347.

On September 2nd 1939 a delegate of the Labour Party met with the British Foreign Minister Halifax in the lobby of Parliament. 'Do you still have hope?' he asked. 'If you mean hope for war,' answered Halifax, 'then your hope will be fulfilled tomorrow. 'God be thanked!' replied the representative of the British Labour Party. - Professor Michael Freund.

"In Britain, Lord Halifax was reported as being 'redeemed'. He ordered beer. We laughed and joked." - H. Roth. Are We Being Lied To?

"In April, 1939, (four months before the outbreak of war) Ambassador William C. Bullitt, whom I had known for twenty years, called me to the American Embassy in Paris. The American Ambassador told me that war had been decided upon. He did not say, nor did I ask, by whom. He let me infer it. ... When I said that in the end Germany would be driven into the arms of Soviet Russia and Bolshevism, the Ambassador replied: "‘what of it? There will not be enough Germans left when the war is over to be worth bolshevising." -- Karl von Wiegand, April, 23rd, 1944, Chicago Herald American

"I felt sorry for the German people. We were planning - and we had the force to carry out our plans - to obliterate a once mighty nation." - Admiral Daniel Leahy; U.S Ambassador ˆ

Sorokin concludes therefore, "that Germany has had the smallest and Spain the largest percent of years at war." Of leading modern European states, England, France and Russia show clearly twice the aggressive tendencies of Germany.

GERMANY DID NOT WANT WAR

"I believe now that Hitler and the German people did not want war. But we declared war on Germany, intent on destroying it, in accordance with our principle of balance of power, and we were encouraged by the 'Americans' around Roosevelt. We ignored Hitler's pleadings not to enter into war. Now we are forced to realize that Hitler was right." - Attorney General, Sir. Hartley Shawcross, March,16th, 1984

"The last thing Hitler wanted was to produce another great war." - Sir. Basil Liddell Hart

"I see no reason why this war must go on. I am grieved to think of the sacrifices which it will claim. I would like to avert them." - Adolf Hitler, July, 1940.

Winston Churchill agrees: "We entered the war of our own free will, without ourselvesb being directly assaulted." - Guild Hall Speech, July 1943.

THE BALANCE SHEET

On the balance sheets it can be seen that the Poles and French alone, not counting Britain and its Empire, had the equivalent of 130 divisions against a total of 98 German divisions of with 1/3rd were virtually untrained men.

In terms of trained soldiers the Germans were at an even bigger disadvantage. (Note at the outbreak of war over 50% of the German armed forces was horse drawn).

WAR IN THE AIR

"The superiority of the Luftwaffe has been greatly exaggerated to create the impression that Britain was the underdog; a David fighting Goliath

In terms of armaments the noted British military historian, B.H Liddell Hart noted: "What is quite clear, and became evident at the start, was that the German bombers were too poorly armed to be able to beat off the British fighters without a fighter escort of their own.” – History of the Second World War.

GERMANY AND OTHER FREE COUNTRIES ATTACKED

Poland carried out the first acts of aggression. In March 1939 Poland, already occupying German territory ‘acquired’ in 1919 invaded Czechoslovakia. During the months running up to the outbreak of war Polish armed forces repeatedly violated German borders. On August 31st 1939 Polish irregular armed forces launched a full scale attack on the German border town of Gleiwitz.

Within hours Germany retaliated resulting in Britain and France’s declarations of war on the German nation on 3rd Sept 1939. In Britain’s case this declaration of war was constitutionally illegal. It was not as it should have been ratified by parliament.

Despite her borders being constantly attacked by the numerically superior armies of France and England, and economically strangled by world finance, Germany refused to be drawn, negotiated for peace and turned the other cheek for ten months.

Only when it accurately learned that England intended to broaden the western front by occupying the Low Countries and Norway, thus surrounding and threatening Germany’s entire borders, did Germany carry out a pre-emptive strike.

Germany’s defensive counter attack was launched on 10th May 1940. This resulted in the rout of 330,000 British and French troops by a significantly smaller army. It was one of the worst debacles in military history. (The British press called it ‘a miracle).

Russia invaded Finland on Nov 30th 1939. Britain (not for the first time) and France invaded Norway's neutrality on 8th April 1940. To avoid attack via the Baltic Sea Germany counter-attacked. In the small battles that followed (Trondheim) 2,000 German troops routed 13,000 British troops. They were evacuated on 1st May. To save face Churchill disembarked 20,000 British troops at Narvik. They were driven out by 2,000 Austrian Alpine troops.

Canada declared war on Germany 10th Sept 1939. In June 1940 Soviet Russia invaded Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and Rumania. In June 1940, Britain declared war on Finland, Rumania and Hungary whilst also occupying defenseless Iceland. All of these acts of aggression in gross violation of international law and previously signed treaties.

On May 10th 1940 in brazen defiance of international law Britain occupied Iceland. Icelanders regarded the British armed forces as an occupying force.

On 7th Dec 1941 a British backed coup overthrew the Yugoslav government. On 27th March 1941 British troops enter Greece. On 6th April 1941 Germany retaliated and Britain retreated again. In June 1940 Britain prepares to invade neutral Portugal.

The United States, supposedly neutral, consistently attacks German shipping and arrests or otherwise kidnaps German citizens, even those living in South American countries. In August 1941. Germany retaliated.

In 1940 alone Britain, supposedly standing alone and at bay, added 1.6 MILLION SQUARE MILES TO ITS WORLD EMPIRE occupying Italian and French colonies; Syria, Iraq and Persia. Britain’s foremost military historian, A.J.P. Taylor conceded: "There can be no doubt that he (Hitler) broadened the war in 1941 only on preventive grounds.”

Footnote on casualties: In terms of casualties the United Kingdom came in at number nine. Russia came first (official figures at 13.6 million, Germany 3.5, China 1.3, Japan 1.3, Romania 350,000, United States 252,000, Italy 279,000, UK 264,000, France 213,000, Hungary 200,000, Poland 123,000, Greece 88,000, Finland 82,000, Canada 37,000, India 24,000, Australia 23,000, Belgium 12,000, Czechoslovakia 10,000, Bulgaria 10,000, New Zealand 10,000 (another country threatened by Germany no doubt!), Netherlands 8,000, South Africa 6,000, Norway 3,000, Denmark 1,800, Brazil 943.


A FINAL EPITAPH FROM ONE OF ENGLAND’S FINEST POETS:

A curse for England, false and base,
Where nothing can prosper but disgrace,
Where crushed is each flower’s tender form,
And decay and corruption feed the worm ....

... Sounds familiar?

www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-SurprisingWW2Comparisons-amband .htm

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=8579

[Dogsmilk]

One might wonder why anyone would write such an obviously skewed and inaccurate 'history essay', but it all makes perfect sense if you're aware the writer, Michael Walsh, is a neo-Nazi.

Indeed, this piece is on his website

http://www.nazi -lauck-nsdapao.com/eng-uk-list.htm
(link broken)

which features such other literary gems as his stirring on the fuhrer day

[TmcMistress]

The "Ziopedia" link made me do a double-take, personally.

[blackcat]

[blackbear]

I found the following:

The Myth of German Culpability Michael Walsh argues that contrary to popular belief, Britain started World War II and Germany only reluctantly entered the fray More ... on the following site.....

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/

I found it an interesting read.

Hello Dogsmilk.....Would you like to answer the comment by Blackcat....

Please enlighten us where the article is skewed and inaccurate.

Thanks

....I found the following on the truthseeker site aswell.......

Brasscheck TV:

The most propagandized country on earth, the US “In fact it’s worse now than its ever been before, we have a White House that is totally dominated by Israelis” – James Akins, former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia on Zionist control of U.S. foriegn policy

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/315.html

It might pass the time while you are contacting the support site for zionazis...

http://giyus.org/

[ian neal]

Why? What purpose does it serve to post the views of a racist, neo-nazi, hitler apologist on this site? What is your game exactly?

That Churchill, Uncle Joe and FDR were also guilty of war crimes is not in dispute as far as I'm concerned. That does not mean that Hitler was not culpable for nazi crimes. Surely you are not just discovering this hidden side to WWii, discovering the connections between the allies, the banking-military nexus and hitler for the first time? And in seeking to bring this to wider attention why do you choose this source?

Who benefits from posting the views of racists on this site? Should it be acceptable to post the views of known racists and then just say, 'oh well, they are not my views and besides I have managed to dig out an article where he is not overtly racist, please comment on that'

Well, no. Why should other posters waste their time explaining to really dull people why Hitler was a war criminal?

[blackbear]

Also on the truthseeker site I found the following :

1..... Our Cultural Heritage Despite Israeli attempts to eradicate and demean it, despite the ongoing oppression, Palestine’s cultural legacy has endured to become a source of strength. Reham Alhelsi explains

http://palestinethinktank.com/2008/05/11/reham-alhelsi-our-cultural-he ritage/

2....Smoking Mirrors: Lying, Murdering Scoundrels and the People Who Believe Them My feeling is that we are all looking at a long hot summer which shall prove to be anything but metaphorical, Smoking Mirrors explains

http://smokingmirrors.blogspot.com/2008/05/lying-murdering-scoundrels- and-people.html

3.....San Francisco: 20 Jews Arrested in protest of 60th Anniversary Event Another reminder that not all Jews buy into Zionism occurred yesterday in San Francisco, when Jewish acitivists were arrested protesting at an event commemorating Israel's 60th anniversary

http://notimetocelebrate.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/san-francisco-20-jew s-arrested-in-protest-of-60th-anniversary-event/

4.....Ted Olson's Report of Phone Calls from Barbara Olson on 9/11: Three Official Denials The official 9/11 story continues to unravel. Reports by Solicitor General Ted Olson, that his wife had called him from the hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 on 9/11 have been have been refuted by the FBI, Pentagon historians and American airlines

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8514

by....David Ray Griffin

5......Hezbollah phone system sparks new Lebanon unrest The landline network was crucial to Hezbollah in combating a massive Israeli assault two years ago

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hWNtZqDtSz6bUmXji-7QiGBS3i-w

I found the above articles interesting aswell.

[blackcat]

[Dogsmilk]

[blackcat]

[blackbear]

Whilst browsing at the following:

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/

I come across...."The Myth of German Culpability"

I found it an interesting read. It made me think, I need to get on Amazon + do some background reading on the subject.

Maybe:...William Shirer.....The Rise + Fall of the Third Reich.

Back to the article...I didn't even look at the site it originated from..

http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-SurprisingWW2Comparisons -amband.htm

I have now. One page with no links.

Surprise .....I didnt even Yahoo/Google........Michael Walsh.

Over to Dogsmilk

Who states....

"One might wonder why anyone would write such an obviously skewed and inaccurate 'history essay', but it all makes perfect sense if you're aware the writer, Michael Walsh, is a neo-Nazi.

Indeed, this piece is on his website"

http://www.nazi.org/

I can find no reference that this is the website of Michael Walsh....(out of curiosity ....any evidence for this assertion)

The contributors on the above site are the following:

Craig Smith
Robert Lindstrom
Steve Martinez
Jane McAllion

Who ever they are.....

Dogsmilk continues .....

"Not surprising then that this features on avowedly 'racialist' website the birdman. Birdman isn't 'against' anyone though - he just wants to avoid "the Rising Tide of Turd-World Color" (see Natural racism in his "diversity" section"). Inevitably, he has a big section on teh jooos."

Also......Michael Walsh .....who ever he really is ...is suddenly a Nazi chum of mine....gosh.!

The Moral of the story

If one doesn't like the message for whatever reason............

Smear..Obfuscate....anything.....

Name Calling

Through the careful choice of words, the name calling technique links a person or an idea to a negative symbol. Creating negative connotations by name calling is done to try and get the audience to reject a person or idea on the basis of negative associations, without allowing a real examination of that person or idea. The most obvious example of that is name calling - "they are a neo-Nazi group" tends to sound pretty negative to most people.

Finally.....

Read the article + do plenty of backgound reading.

[ian neal]

[Dogsmilk]

[blackcat]

[Dogsmilk]

[chek]

[blackcat]

[Dogsmilk]

[gruts]

omg - having been away for a few weeks it looks like things have gone from bad to worse around here....

[TonyGosling]

This is about as silly as that book 'Hitler was a British agent' and amounts to a misunderstanding of the origins of Nazism through the Thule society and Heinrich Himmler's 20th Century manufactured paganism. Winding up with having Hitler as the German people's Man-God saying 'amen' at the end of each line of his nighmare speeches like a false messiah.
Let's hope in our present malaise we don't allow those that are demanding the massive scale human sacrifices to get as far as they did back in the 1930s.
My guess is though that we do not learn, even from such diabolical experiences as the Nazi holocaust.

[eogz]

I don't for one minute doubt that WW2 was not as is historically reported, I don't doubt for one minute that the Holocaust was manipulated and used to further the agenda of some both positively and negatively.

However the Holocaust happened (numbers are irrelevant, people still died unecessarily cruel deaths) and Germany was an aggressive nation.

I think to claim one side or the other was innocent or not as culpable is to be a little naive and possibly set yourselves off to furthering the agenda of some pretty unpleasant folks out there.

I take most of the above with a pinch of salt and hopefully try and see the bigger picture.

[utopiated]

There's much about WWII that has been twisted. The eternal problem is that it is now considered off-limits to even begin discussing other contexts and narratives.

It does seem that there was a high level agenda to prevent easy migration of Jews from some European countries with the post-war aim being the establishment of the Israeli state.

I don't understand why people are shocked that an essentially British imperialism mixed with a rapidly expanding Zionism was one of the core precursors to such things. As usual the "neo-nazi" and anti-semite flags get raised instead of allowing a decent discussion.

[chek]

[Dogsmilk]

[wepmob2000]

A few points I'd like to raise.... (my comments in red)

[wepmob2000]

[blackcat]

[gruts]

Britain and france declared war on germany in response to germany's invasion of poland (as they were obliged to do by treaty). but as far as I know, they didn't follow up this "aggressive" declaration with any action (as already pointed out above).

so if germany hadn't insisted on starting ww2 they wouldn't have made this rather empty declaration.

I'm also not sure what all the other countries Germany invaded and occupied did to deserve such a fate....

[blackcat]

The USA went to war in Iraq in response to Iraq's possession of wmd. They went to war in Afghanistan because they "hated our freedoms". The have not gone to war with North Korea or Israel who have wmd nor have they invaded countries like Zimbabwe which are run by terrorists. They are very selective about who they go to war with. Britain and the USA have ignored a multitude of treaty "obligations" when it suited them and to say we went to assist Poland because we felt a moral obligation is the most niave comment I have read on these forums.

[gruts]

lol - germany invaded poland first. if it had not done so, britain and france would not have had to respond. and their "response" consisted of not actually doing anything.

so how that makes them "the aggressors" against poor inoocent little germany is anybody's guess.

and your attempt to justify germany's invasion of multiple countries is just plain silly....