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gareth
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 Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: Article on "passenger lists" misinfo |
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9/11 Misinformation: Flight “Passenger Lists” Show “No Hijacker Names” by Arabesque
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By Arabesque
The assertion that 9/11 passengers lists “contained no Arab names” is frequently seen in the 9/11 truth movement.[1] For example, this article by Enver Masud is headlined, “Why are there no Arab names on the passenger list for the planes used in the September 11, 2001 attack…?”[2] The 9/11 website 9/11 Hard Facts claims, “[On] officially released passenger lists provided by the airlines to the media, no Arab names appear on any of the four passenger lists.”[3] In David Ray Griffin’s 9/11: The Myth and the Reality, he repeats the claim that, “[Their] names should be on the flight manifests. But the flight manifests that have been released contain neither the names of the alleged hijackers nor any other Arab names.”[4] John Leonard, Webster Tarpley and Kevin Barrett’s publisher repeats the claim that “Scholars [for 9/11 Truth]… report things like ‘there were no Arabs on the passenger lists’”[5] As well, Michael C. Ruppert, citing Gary North wrote, “Another easy and non-debatable hole is with the passenger lists and the hijackers. Gary North, Ph.D. - a history professor… relied on lists published by CNN… Official reports state that there were only 19 hijackers. Second, none of listed passenger names are Arabic, Muslim… The government needs to provide an explanation for this glaring discrepancy.”[6]
In fact, the U.S. Government withheld the actual passenger lists for years. An earlier version of Jim Hoffman’s page on the passenger lists reported correctly that there was previously “no public evidence… Researchers who have attempted to obtain this information from the airlines have been rebuffed.”[7] However, many 9/11 researchers mistakenly cited “victim lists”—not passenger lists. From the 911 research website, Jim Hoffman explains:
“According to the official story, teams of four and five Islamic hijackers took over Flights 11, 175, 77, and 93. Victims lists for the four planes published by CNN and elsewhere are free of Arab names… This fact has been highlighted as suspicious by some researchers describing the lists as passenger manifests. However, these lists are not passenger manifests, but lists of victims… CNN describes its criteria for including persons in its memorial in a pop-up window labelled ‘About this site’… ‘(Those identified by federal authorities as the hijackers are not included)…’ In July of 2006 a large collection of documents was published on a website containing prosecution and defense exhibits for the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui… The faxes, reproduced below, include the names of the alleged hijackers.”[8] |
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scienceplease
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Excellent article on "passenger lists" misinfo |
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| gareth wrote: | 9/11 Misinformation: Flight “Passenger Lists” Show “No Hijacker Names” by Arabesque
| Quote: |
By Arabesque
The assertion that 9/11 passengers lists “contained no Arab names” is frequently seen in the 9/11 truth movement.[1] For example, this article by Enver Masud is headlined, “Why are there no Arab names on the passenger list for the planes used in the September 11, 2001 attack…?”[2] The 9/11 website 9/11 Hard Facts claims, “[On] officially released passenger lists provided by the airlines to the media, no Arab names appear on any of the four passenger lists.”[3] In David Ray Griffin’s 9/11: The Myth and the Reality, he repeats the claim that, “[Their] names should be on the flight manifests. But the flight manifests that have been released contain neither the names of the alleged hijackers nor any other Arab names.”[4] John Leonard, Webster Tarpley and Kevin Barrett’s publisher repeats the claim that “Scholars [for 9/11 Truth]… report things like ‘there were no Arabs on the passenger lists’”[5] As well, Michael C. Ruppert, citing Gary North wrote, “Another easy and non-debatable hole is with the passenger lists and the hijackers. Gary North, Ph.D. - a history professor… relied on lists published by CNN… Official reports state that there were only 19 hijackers. Second, none of listed passenger names are Arabic, Muslim… The government needs to provide an explanation for this glaring discrepancy.”[6]
In fact, the U.S. Government withheld the actual passenger lists for years. An earlier version of Jim Hoffman’s page on the passenger lists reported correctly that there was previously “no public evidence… Researchers who have attempted to obtain this information from the airlines have been rebuffed.”[7] However, many 9/11 researchers mistakenly cited “victim lists”—not passenger lists. From the 911 research website, Jim Hoffman explains:
“According to the official story, teams of four and five Islamic hijackers took over Flights 11, 175, 77, and 93. Victims lists for the four planes published by CNN and elsewhere are free of Arab names… This fact has been highlighted as suspicious by some researchers describing the lists as passenger manifests. However, these lists are not passenger manifests, but lists of victims… CNN describes its criteria for including persons in its memorial in a pop-up window labelled ‘About this site’… ‘(Those identified by federal authorities as the hijackers are not included)…’ In July of 2006 a large collection of documents was published on a website containing prosecution and defense exhibits for the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui… The faxes, reproduced below, include the names of the alleged hijackers.”[8] |
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My understanding that the airlines announced the passenger lists not the government. (No Arab names mentioned). Is the date of announcement of the passenger list available anywhere? Who did the judging that these 19 were the hijackers and no just some innocent traveller (that had an arab sounding name!) How was it crossed checked? Have they interviewed the hijackers friends and families? (For instance, Atta's girlfriend did not seem to be overly taxed by FBI agents or concerned about what she said until she decided to go underground...) |
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fish5133
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Surely a victims list would have included the hijackers. But then some of the hijackers were not victims as they were still alive according to the BBC.
Confusing?
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911Eyewitness
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| fish5133 wrote: | Surely a victims list would have included the hijackers. But then some of the hijackers were not victims as they were still alive according to the BBC.
Confusing? |
More bs?
The hijackers are considered perpetrators not victims.
The circular data found on the web is there to confuse you but it is made by bloggers not news sources. That is why you cannot find them; they only exist in 100,000 blogs carrying David Ray Griffin's reprocessed gumba. Each linked to each other for page rank that THEY are the source - which they are not.
Like the bs 4000 Jews who missed work that day these are products of fakery with an agenda. Your leaders are wrong. Don't latch on to leaders and do your own sourcing. Webfairy, Alex or Prof Jones are not source - no matter what they tell you. |
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acrobat74
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Frazzel
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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where do we find a list of the passengers on the planes? anyone know of a web link please put it up. Then we can see if some of the alleged hijackers that were found to be alive in saudi arabia are there on the list or not.
more research is needed.
this shows how much we need to double and triple check everything.
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noise
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: |
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What explains the FBI mistakes if the manifests had the real names of hijackers? Adnan/Ameer Bukhari? Mosear Caned? Were these names on the original manifests?
Where is the footage? Atta/Alomari in Portland, Maine (not wearing jackets and ties despite Touhey's (US Airways ticket agent) recollection that they were at the ticket desk) and a video of Flight 77 hijackers with no timestamp and a man who doesn't fit Hanjour's physical profile was all the FBI had?
Did the gate agents remember seeing people who fit the FBI's list of 19? I've done extensive searches for information on the 9/11 gate agents and haven't found much. Why was Touhey's story known yet the people who would have been eyewitnesses for the 9/11 flights are not? One would think there would have been more media interest.
This is interesting in relation to the Flight 93 gate agent:
| Quote: | A United Airlines manager finds that a gate agent has already singled out boarding passes belonging to four suspicious passengers who were on Flight 93. Terri Rizzuto is the United Airlines station manager at Newark Airport, from where Flight 93 departed. Some time after hearing that this plane has crashed, she speaks on the phone with the FBI, which is requesting the plane’s manifest and its Passenger Name Record (PNR). After arranging permission to release these, she goes to Gate 17, from where she knows Flight 93 departed, wanting to talk to her staff there. When she arrives, a supervisor hands her four boarding passes. The supervisor tells her they are “The men, who did this maybe,” and points her toward one of the gate agents who had boarded the passengers onto the flight. When Rizzuto asks the gate agent, “How do you know?” he replies: “They were too well-dressed. Too well-dressed for that early in the morning. And their muscles rippled below their suits.… [A]nd their eyes.” [Murphy, 2006, pp. 71-73] However, this report of men with rippling muscles contradicts the 9/11 Commission’s description of the so-called “muscle” hijackers (i.e. the non-pilot hijackers) on the four targeted planes: They “were not physically imposing,” with the majority of them being “slender in build.”
Flight 93 gate agent pulls suspicious boarding passes |
Did the other gate agents have a similar experience?
We had the strange account of Atta boarding (Paul Sperry for WND 9/21/01):
| Quote: | The gate agent who checked in Mohamed Atta and gave him his boarding pass told the FBI that she remembers him showing up for Flight 11 late, his face covered with sweat, the source says.
"The girl that checked Atta said he was sweating bullets, that he was running late," the employee said. "His forehead was drenched."
(snip)
She says the gate agent who checked in Atta has been so distraught that she requested to be the agent that worked the gate on Saturday when American resumed flights out of Logan.
"She wanted to get right back into it because she didn't sleep for the whole week, you know, because she checked them all in and then waved goodbye to the captain," the employee said. "I mean, that can do a number on you."
Hijack ringleader was sweating bullets |
Why wasn't Alomari in a hurry as well?
I get the point of the OP. It is important to avoid repeating the same talking points or declaring beliefs based on sketchy details. That said, it seems some debunkers (not referring to the OP but 9/11 debunkers in general) are unwilling to concede that there are questionable aspects without resolution. |
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911Eyewitness
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| acrobat74 wrote: | | 911Eyewitness wrote: | | Webfairy, Alex or Prof Jones are not source - no matter what they tell you. |
With respect to Dr. Jones: are we to take your allegation at face value?
Do you have any evidence to support your claim?
Are you 'source'? |
You are not worth the spit. |
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outsider
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Location: East London
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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As we know two Jewish people were warned beforehand, and as we have some of the 'Dancing Israelis' on Israeli TV saying they were there 'to document the event', it would be rather strange if more Jews were not warned; so it is certainly suspicious that so many were not in their offices.
But of course, I suppose the previous poster also believes Israel attacked the 'USS Liberty' because they thought it was an Egyptian horse transport, that had been shelling the coast, as Israel contends.
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