| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: John Reid - disciple of Hegel's "Owl of Minerva" |
 |
|
Yet more proof that there is a sinister undercurrent flowing through New Labour and the Home Office. For those that aren't familiar with Hegel's textbooks of democracy-smashing here's a reasonable introduction...
http://power.consumercide.com/hegel-nwo.html
more here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,2064960,00.html
http://www.moriel.org/articles/discernment/church_issues/willow_creek_ hegelian_dialect.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a394cb4154192.htm
Can't find Dr Reid's quote in Hansard though for some reason.....?
This 'confession' is verging on the surreal.... The geezer who seems to be perfectly cast as a Dr. Who villain is asked a question he doesn't want to answer so blabbers a load of esoteric mumbo-jumbo.
And they call us theorists 
| Quote: |
Hegel, shmegel
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/julian_baggini/2007/04/hegel_shmeg el.html
John Reid may have stunned his parliamentary critics into submission by quoting the German philosopher, but was it any better than political Kant?
by Julian Baggini
April 25, 2007 12:30 PM
Who said Britain was dumbing down? Yesterday, GWF Hegel was in da house - the House of Commons that is. Asked whether we were winning the battle against crime (not to be confused with the war on terror) Dr John Reid referenced the German Idealist philosopher, saying: "I think the Owl of Minerva will spread its wings only with the coming of dusk." He didn't get that PhD for nothing.
The Home Office bruiser had silenced his critics with a double blow. First, MPs are confident when scrapping with Reid, but who has the stature to argue with a great philosopher? Second, no one had a clue what it meant, but to admit it would have revealed their ignorance, so instead, they just nodded sagely.
What Hegel meant was that the true significance of events is only evident once they have finished. When politicians try to say this, they usually sound evasive or pompous. Blair said that history, or his maker, would be his judge and everyone fell about laughing. If only he'd read his Hegel, he could have said much the same thing more obliquely and got away with it.
The tactic of quoting philosophers could perhaps be a new form of high-brow spin. The Home Office could stop being defensive about the fact that it doesn't know how many refused asylum seekers are currently in the country and state boldly: "As Aristotle once said, politics is not mathematics, and it is the mark of the trained mind only to expect as much precision as the subject matter allows."
Any policy which has a downside can be justified by appeal to Nietzsche: "That which does not kill us makes us stronger." It might not work for things that actually have killed some of us, like the Iraq war, but then I refer you back to Aristotle.
However, Reid has a long way to go before he matches the current philosopher-king of parliament. "The Kantian half of the truth about virtue and vice is that they are chosen; the Aristotelian half of the truth about virtue and vice is that they are learned." Those words were uttered in a speech by Oliver Letwin, a former philosopher whose academic tome Ethics, Emotion and the Unity of Self was published in 1997. But the Kant speech was actually a rare lapse for a politician who knows being too intellectual in public does you no good at all. When I asked him if it was a disadvantage to confess a philosophical background, he replied, "Massive," without hesitation. "I do my best to conceal it."
It is perhaps a sad reflection on our culture that John "call me doctor" Reid could perhaps learn something from his too-learned friend.
|
_________________
www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org
www.rethink911.org
www.patriotsquestion911.com
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/
Last edited by TonyGosling on Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gibson
Minor Poster
Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 62
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
From the point of view of Skull and Bones’ broad vision of human development, left and right are viewed as two parts of the Hegelian dialectical process; one political wing represents ‘thesis’ while the other represents ‘antithesis’. These two aspects clash and fight each other, but eventually merge to form a ‘synthesis’. It is this synthesis, according to Sutton, that Skull and Bones is aiming to create. By controlling and manipulating the conflict, it controls the outcome (or synthesis).
http://www.newdawnmagazine.com.au/articles/Brothers%20of%20the%20Shado w.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jomper
Validated Poster
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 99
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tony, some of those pages you linked to in your post seem weird and contradictory. Blaming Hegel for observing the dialectic and then using it to account for just about anything and everything seems confused and regressive to me, it's like a pointless argument. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark Gobell
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 4529
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Good dig TG.
Breathtaking arrogance from the Glasgow bully boy.
If John "call me doctor" Reid considers that quoting some "philosopher's" allusions to absolute knowledge using metaphorical Roman symbolism passes for meaningful political discourse then we are in a very sorry state indeed.
Using Hegel's mythological construct in answer to pertinent questions about the effectiveness of crime reduction policy is an elitist way of saying I have no idea.
If you have no idea doc then why are you in the job ?
Of course, we've heard it all before from his predecessor David "I have no idea how many illegals there are in the country because we don't have ID cards" Blunkett.
New Labour: ORDO AB CHAO
We will create the chaos.
You will scream for solutions.
We will provide those solutions as your beneficient masters.
Some of you are going to die
Martyrs of course
To the freedoms
That I shall provide
From erstwhile Gramsci-ite to post alcoholic Hegellian acolyte in a few short years.
Why waste anymore of your precious time Dr John?
When are you going to admit to your deep primordial desire to try them jack books on, just for size, once and for all eh ?
When are you going to free your inner turmoil and confess to your attraction to control ?
Was it the hard knocks on the streets of Glasgow or the fact that Adolf beat you all to it, politically ?
Was it a repressed power at any price disguised in the clothes of Marxist-Leninist equity ?
Just how did you arrive at Lord Protector from spitting at the Queen Johnny boy ?
We really do have to stop electing these madmen and women and find a more equitable solution to managing the world.
_________________
The Medium is the Massage - Marshall McLuhan. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Simon Hoggart's Guardian piece (linked above) was particularly well written and an excellent dig - don't often read such incisive stuff in Rushbridger (buddy buddy of David Mills, Berlusconi's crooked perjurer)'s Guardian.
| Quote: |
Owls of anguish
Simon Hoggart
Wednesday April 25, 2007
The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,2064960,00.html
I don't know what is scarier about John Reid's disquisitions on terrorism: the "generation-long" war we are supposed to be fighting against the terrorists, or the preparations he has made to cope. Certainly, as always with New Labour, a massive taskforce of jargon has been assembled to meet this ongoing and pitiless menace.
Mr Reid began yesterday's session with the home affairs committee of the Commons by pointing out that the National Security Board now meets weekly, the Committee on Security and Terrorism had met yesterday, and the government is now recruiting someone who will doubtless be known as the Terror Tsar, or the director-general of the Office of Security and Counter-Terrorism to his friends.
It's no wonder we need so many people with such magnificent titles. Acccording to the home secretary, "the level of threat we are facing, and its exponential rate of growth, requires that we re-focus all our efforts".
And what should these re-focused efforts involve? "Better oversight, longer strategic planning and thinking, better integrated responses, and central regeneration and capacity to deal with the battle for values and ideas."
And who should deal with all these matters? Why, "a laterally integrated cross-government centre", of course. So that's straightforward. But Mr Reid was also in philosophical mood. "If we had to look at all the changes in the world and find one defining characteristic, it would be the fact that we are moving from static communities and a static world to a highly mobile world.
"As the world changes, so must we change our response to the world."
Here's another one, missus: "Problems used to come to us. Now we have to go to the problems."
Home secretaries used to bang on about crime and punishment, hanging and flogging. Mr Reid sounds more like a hermit in a mountain cave dispensing wisdom to backpackers and rock stars who have made it up the stony, 8,000-metre track.
The threat, the guru told us, was so extensive that it could not be dealt with by only one department. They would all have to have a "common and overlapping cause: the values that are enshrined in our lifestyle and our liberties, which are common to all of us".
David Winnick asked: "Are we winning this battle?"
Any normal, boring, unenlightened politician might have answered "yes", "no", or "search me". Not the Swami of Shotts. "If you will permit me to use one of my favourite quotes - in a sense not to answer your question - I think the Owl of Minerva will spread its wings only with the coming of dusk."
I have checked the original quote from Hegel, and, unlike Minerva, I am no wiser. But it didn't half impress the committee. They now expect the terrorists to utter owls of anguish.
|
Here's one of the better quotes from the Grauniad's "comment is free" blog response - which just goes to show how the internet is revolutionising the newspaper world
| Quote: |
dante
Comment No. 548592
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/julian_baggini/2007/04/hegel_shmeg el.html
April 25 17:16
IND Hegel's particular fame was for his sense of a zeitgheist: That history was the expression of some unfolding of universal spirit.
He used this philosophy both to call the Prussia contemporary to his time the pinnacle of civilisation (Hubris later picked up by Fukuyama) but also to legitimise that state of affairs by making them seem universal, rather than the responsibility of frail human judgement immersed in geopolitical maneuverings.
It is apt, albeit unintentionally so, that Reid quote this on the war on terror, since irresponsibility, frailty and hubris driven by a sense of the universal and divine 'right,' characterise the whole sorry debacle.
The problem with the quote is that the owl of Minerva never flys, because you never know when a matter is closed, or when it will re-open for that matter. This again is an apt philosophical error for those engaging in such a meaningless endless war.
|
_________________
www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org
www.rethink911.org
www.patriotsquestion911.com
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark Gobell
On Gardening Leave
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 4529
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Simon Hoggart wrote: | | Mr Reid sounds more like a hermit in a mountain cave dispensing wisdom to backpackers and rock stars who have made it up the stony, 8,000-metre track |
Excellent.
| Simon Hoggart wrote: | | the Swami of Shotts |
Magnifique !
Now I'm smiling again.
_________________
The Medium is the Massage - Marshall McLuhan. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
utopiated
Validated Poster
Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 645
Location: UK Midlands
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Craig W
Validated Poster
Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 485
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Fascinating stuff, Tony. Thanks.
Don't know what it all means but I don't like the smell of it. 
_________________
"Nothing can trouble you but your own imagination." ~ Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Does Herr Doktor know that a third degree Illuminati is known as a 'Minerval'? If not I think he should be told!....
By the way, I talked about this stuff in a radio interview I did yesterday for obscure but courageous Dutch superstar John Kuhles who runs this website:
http://www.untoldmysteries.com/
If mainstream-media can not handle it, we will.
http://www.untoldmysteries.com/Secret_Societies+UFO-ET-Agenda.htm
Please post a link somewhere here on the forum if anyone can find the mp3 to download or an html link to a web page with it on.....
I've started a new thread on the topic of possible links between Reid and the Illuminati here
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=8709
| Quote: |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati
The Illuminati's members pledged obedience to their superiors, and were divided into three main classes: the first, known as the Nursery, encompassed the ascending degrees or offices of Preparation, Novice, Minerval and Illuminatus Minor. The second, known as the Masonry, consisting of the ascending degrees of Illuminatus Major and Illuminatus dirigens, the latter also sometimes called Scotch Knight. The third, designated the Mysteries, was subdivided into the degrees of the Lesser Mysteries (Presbyter and Regent) and those of the Greater Mysteries (Magus and Rex). Relations with Masonic lodges were established at Munich and Freising in 1780 by Alexander Gibson and Joseph Vincent respectively. |
_________________
www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org
www.rethink911.org
www.patriotsquestion911.com
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bgmark2
Wrecker
Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 15
|
| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
of course...you have to watch those illuminati people...rumor has it they are in on the alien kept in area 51...and are working on major secret developements...
_________________
yes u knw |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bongo
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 687
|
| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A very interesting take on the quote by Wikipedia...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owl_of_Minerva
| Quote: | | The owl of Minerva is the owl that accompanies Minerva in Roman myths, seen as a symbol of wisdom. It was used by the nineteenth-century idealist philosopher G.W.F. Hegel to mean philosopher. Hegel noted that "the owl of Minerva spreads its wings only with the falling of the dusk" -- meaning that philosophy comes to understand a way of life just as it passes away. |
Is John 'Ned-boy' Reid suggesting the NWO is the new way of life, just as the old has passed away? It could give the impression that 9/11 was indeed the 'falling of the dusk'.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
NURSERY: Preparation, Novice, Minerval, Illuminatus Minor.
MASONRY: Illuminatus Major, Illuminatus Dirigens (Scotch Knight).
LESSER MYSTERIES: Presbyter, Regent.
GREATER MYSTERIES: Magus, Rex.
| Quote: |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati
The Illuminati's members pledged obedience to their superiors, and were divided into three main classes: the first, known as the Nursery, encompassed the ascending degrees or offices of Preparation, Novice, Minerval and Illuminatus Minor. The second, known as the Masonry, consisting of the ascending degrees of Illuminatus Major and Illuminatus dirigens, the latter also sometimes called Scotch Knight. The third, designated the Mysteries, was subdivided into the degrees of the Lesser Mysteries (Presbyter and Regent) and those of the Greater Mysteries (Magus and Rex). Relations with Masonic lodges were established at Munich and Freising in 1780 by Alexander Gibson and Joseph Vincent respectively. |
_________________
www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org
www.rethink911.org
www.patriotsquestion911.com
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TonyGosling
Editor
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 18335
Location: St. Pauls, Bristol, England
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
DEGREES
0. Preparation
1. Novice
2. Minerval
3. Illuminatus Minor
4. Illuminatus Major (Scotch Novice)
5. Illuminatus Dirigens (Scotch Knight)
6. Presbyter (Priest)
7. Principatus Illuminatus (Prince)
8. Magus (Master)
9. Rex (Man-God)
| TonyGosling wrote: | NURSERY: Preparation, Novice, Minerval, Illuminatus Minor.
MASONRY: Illuminatus Major, Illuminatus Dirigens (Scotch Knight).
LESSER MYSTERIES: Presbyter, Regent.
GREATER MYSTERIES: Magus, Rex.
| Quote: |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati
The Illuminati's members pledged obedience to their superiors, and were divided into three main classes: the first, known as the Nursery, encompassed the ascending degrees or offices of Preparation, Novice, Minerval and Illuminatus Minor. The second, known as the Masonry, consisting of the ascending degrees of Illuminatus Major and Illuminatus dirigens, the latter also sometimes called Scotch Knight. The third, designated the Mysteries, was subdivided into the degrees of the Lesser Mysteries (Presbyter and Regent) and those of the Greater Mysteries (Magus and Rex). Relations with Masonic lodges were established at Munich and Freising in 1780 by Alexander Gibson and Joseph Vincent respectively. |
|
_________________
www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org
www.rethink911.org
www.patriotsquestion911.com
www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org
www.mediafor911truth.org
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
www.mp911truth.org
www.ae911truth.org
www.rl911truth.org
www.stj911.org
www.v911t.org
www.thisweek.org.uk
www.abolishwar.org.uk
www.elementary.org.uk
www.radio4all.net/index.php/contributor/2149
http://utangente.free.fr/2003/media2003.pdf
"The maintenance of secrets acts like a psychic poison which alienates the possessor from the community" Carl Jung
https://37.220.108.147/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Chat
Usergroups
Calendar
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
