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chipmunk stew
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject:

John White wrote:

chipmunk stew wrote:

John White wrote:

I'm genius enougth that I tested them before making the above post, and no problem. Can't speak for your connection, obviously

No, but apparently you feel you can speak for my work ethic.

I can speak for what I believe I see: thats all any of us do. I've not seen any critic on this thread show signs of doing the common sense thing of watching the blimmin film: just lots of "it can't be right". I don't respect that, and I'd be dis-honest to pretend I did. I accept some of you may watch it soon

Firstly, it's not "just lots of 'it can't be right'". I've been trying to find out what the claims are (beyond "there is no law"), and trying to fact-check them.

Secondly, now that I have a working link to the thing, I've watched the first forty minutes during lunch. It's a very persuasive presentation. The first twenty minutes or so doesn't say much--it's just set up: people introducing themselves and their credentials, briefly explaining how they became a tax protester, and claiming over and over again that there is no law. The next twenty minutes or so is more substantive, and persuasively presents the tax protesters' argument.

Unfortunately, he takes a page from the Michael Moore school of documentary making, and doesn't give room for the counter-position, except where it can be represented in an embarrassing light. Five minutes of investigoogling reveals that there's plenty out there to substantively rebut the tax protesters' position. He could easily have found it if he was interested in an accurate portrayal.

It's hilarious to me that Russo finds it suspicious that security guards can't quote law to him.

pepik
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject:

Quote:

You mean we're getting close to you revealing what your super secret theory is? That we are going to find out how the Federal Reserve isn't Federal? Oh joy.

John White
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject:

How many people do you think have seen this film now Pepik? Several hundred thousand? A million? If just one in a thousand go and check it our thoroughly, thats a thousand people knowing what a complete monkey your making of yourself: becuase you havnt seen the film, or done any follow up research yourself. Show differently You bet its not federal. Its completely independant. And exactly the same set up as we have here with "The Bank of England". But theres a definate point beyond which i'm not going to care what you decide to keep yourself from learning: and in your case, I'm pretty much there _________________ Free your Self and Free the World

pepik
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject:

I have seen the film, checked it out thoroughly, and done the follow up research myself. However, I refuse to reveal any aspect of what I have learned because you are too lazy to read my mind and debunk the ideas i am telepathically projecting. The Federal Reserve is Federal. Look it up.

John White
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject:

pepik wrote:

I have seen the film, checked it out thoroughly, and done the follow up research myself. However, I refuse to reveal any aspect of what I have learned because you are too lazy to read my mind and debunk the ideas i am telepathically projecting.

The Federal Reserve is Federal. Look it up.

Your not fooling me mate, troll off
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Mr-Bridger
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Joined: 22 Apr 2006
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:10 pm Post subject:

The Federal Reserve is Federal. Look it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve The basic structure of the Federal Reserve System includes: * The Board of Governors * The Federal Open Market Committee * The Federal Reserve Banks * The member banks. Each privately owned Federal Reserve Bank and each member bank of the Federal Reserve System is subject to oversight by a Board of Governors (see generally 12 U.S.C. § 248). _________________ www.infodvds.co.uk www.cornwall911truth.info

John White
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject:

Gee, I wonder if critics think bank loans are secured on assets in the vaults? _________________ Free your Self and Free the World

Mr-Bridger
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Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 186

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject:

Fractional banking ? i suppose that doesn`t exist either _________________ www.infodvds.co.uk www.cornwall911truth.info

Dogsmilk
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject:

Quote:

What is the Federal Reserve System?

The Federal Reserve System, often referred to as the Federal Reserve or simply "the Fed," is the central bank of the United States. It was created by Congress to provide the nation with a safer, more flexible, and more stable monetary and financial system. Over the years, its role has evolved and expanded.
When was the Federal Reserve created?

The Federal Reserve was created on December 23, 1913, with the signing of the Federal Reserve Act by President Woodrow Wilson. The act had been drafted as House Resolution 7837 by Representative Carter Glass (D-VA), incoming chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee.
What are the Federal Reserve's responsibilities?

Today, the Federal Reserve's responsibilities duties fall into four general areas:

* conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing money and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of full employment and stable prices
* supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers
* maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets
* providing certain financial services to the U.S. government, to the public, to financial institutions, and to foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments systems

For an overview of the Federal Reserve and its responsibilities, see The Federal Reserve System: Purposes and Functions.

Return to questions
How is the Federal Reserve System structured?

The Federal Reserve System has a structure designed by Congress to give it a broad perspective on the economy and on economic activity in all parts of the nation. It is a federal system, composed basically of a central, governmental agency--the Board of Governors--in Washington, D.C., and twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks, located in major cities throughout the nation. These components share responsibility for supervising and regulating certain financial institutions and activities; for providing banking services to depository institutions and to the federal government; and for ensuring that consumers receive adequate information and fair treatment in their business with the banking system.

A major component of the System is the Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC), which is made up of the members of the Board of Governors, the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, and presidents of four other Federal Reserve Banks, who serve on a rotating basis. The FOMC oversees open market operations, which is the main tool used by the Federal Reserve to influence money market conditions and the growth of money and credit.

More information
Who owns the Federal Reserve?

The Federal Reserve System is not "owned" by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution. Instead, it is an independent entity within the government, having both public purposes and private aspects.

As the nation's central bank, the Federal Reserve derives its authority from the U.S. Congress. It is considered an independent central bank because its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms. However, the Federal Reserve is subject to oversight by Congress, which periodically reviews its activities and can alter its responsibilities by statute. Also, the Federal Reserve must work within the framework of the overall objectives of economic and financial policy established by the government. Therefore, the Federal Reserve can be more accurately described as "independent within the government."

The twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks, which were established by Congress as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system, are organized much like private corporations--possibly leading to some confusion about "ownership." For example, the Reserve Banks issue shares of stock to member banks. However, owning Reserve Bank stock is quite different from owning stock in a private company. The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. The stock may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan; dividends are, by law, 6 percent per year.

Return to questions
How is the Federal Reserve funded?

The Federal Reserve's income is derived primarily from the interest on U.S. government securities that it has acquired through open market operations. Other sources of income are the interest on foreign currency investments held by the System; fees received for services provided to depository institutions, such as check clearing, funds transfers, and automated clearinghouse operations; and interest on loans to depository institutions (the rate on which is the so-called discount rate). After paying its expenses, the Federal Reserve turns the rest of its earnings over to the U.S. Treasury.
Why did Congress want the Federal Reserve to be relatively independent?

The intent of Congress in shaping the Federal Reserve Act was to keep politics out of monetary policy. The System is independent of other branches and agencies of government. It is self-financed and therefore is not subject to the congressional budgetary process.
Since the Federal Reserve has considerable discretion in carrying out its responsibilities, to whom is it accountable?

The Federal Reserve's ultimate accountability is to Congress, which at any time can amend the Federal Reserve Act. Legislation requires that the Fed report annually on its activities to the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and twice annually on its plans for monetary policy to the banking committees of Congress. Fed officials also testify before Congress when requested.

To ensure financial accountability, the financial statements of the Federal Reserve Banks and the Board of Governors are audited annually by an independent outside auditor. In addition, the Government Accountability Office, as well as the Board's Office of Inspector General, can audit Federal Reserve activities.

Well, that's what they say about themselves.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm#1
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chipmunk stew
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:34 pm Post subject:

John White wrote:

Gee, I wonder if critics think bank loans are secured on assets in the vaults? Very Happy

Of course not. This is not a big covered up conspiracy. The way the Fed operates is well-understood.

chipmunk stew
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:38 pm Post subject:

John White wrote:

pepik wrote:

Your not fooling me mate, troll off

...says the man adding nothing to the conversation. Pony up or piss off, troll.

pepik
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:38 am Post subject:

Quote:

Each privately owned Federal Reserve Bank and each member bank of the Federal Reserve System is subject to oversight by a Board of Governors (see generally 12 U.S.C. § 248).

Hmmm and how about that Board of Governors, could they be federal?

Quote:

Gee, I wonder if critics think bank loans are secured on assets in the vaults?

Gee, I wonder why an asset would need to be secured by an asset? You do realise that for a bank a loan is an asset, right?

Quote:

Fractional banking ? i suppose that doesn`t exist either

Who said it doesn't, and why does that matter? Why do you people keep alluding to things but not coming out and saying them? Don't be shy.

catfish
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Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 430

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:50 am Post subject:

If you have money, do not lend it at interest, but give to one from whom you will not get it back. _________________ Govern : To control Ment : The mind

chipmunk stew
Moderate Poster

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:20 am Post subject:

catfish wrote:

If you have money, do not lend it at interest, but give to one from whom you will not get it back.

Please finish this sentence fragment. It does not make a lick of sense as written.

edit: My mistake. I was reading it as a list, as in:

"If you have money, [and] do not lend it at interest, but give to one from whom you will not get it back, then..."

Last edited by chipmunk stew on Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

catfish
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Posts: 430

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:39 am Post subject:

[Jesus said], "If you have money, don't lend it at interest. Rather, give [it] to someone from whom you won't get it back." _________________ Govern : To control Ment : The mind

chipmunk stew
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject:

catfish wrote:

[Jesus said], "If you have money, don't lend it at interest. Rather, give [it] to someone from whom you won't get it back."

aggle-rithm
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 557

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject:

catfish wrote:

[Jesus said], "If you have money, don't lend it at interest. Rather, give [it] to someone from whom you won't get it back."

Spoken like a man with bad credit.

catfish
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Posts: 430

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject:

aggle-rithm wrote:

catfish wrote:

[Jesus said], "If you have money, don't lend it at interest. Rather, give [it] to someone from whom you won't get it back."

Spoken like a man with bad credit.

Why do you think Jesus had bad credit?
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chipmunk stew
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Posts: 833

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject:

catfish wrote:

aggle-rithm wrote:

catfish wrote:

[Jesus said], "If you have money, don't lend it at interest. Rather, give [it] to someone from whom you won't get it back."

Spoken like a man with bad credit.

Why do you think Jesus had bad credit?

How does this admonition apply to this discussion of legality and ownership?

Or are you simply attempting to poison the well by implying that the Federal Reserve is run by a bunch of dirty money-lenders?
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"They, the jews, also have this thing about linage don't they?
We know a person from recent history who had a thing for linage and gene pools don't we?"
--Patrick Brown

pepik
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Gee, I wonder if critics think bank loans are secured on assets in the vaults? Smile

Still working out why assets need to be secured by assets? Or have you lost interest?

catfish
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Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 430

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:39 am Post subject:

chipmunk stew wrote:

catfish wrote:

[Jesus said], "If you have money, don't lend it at interest. Rather, give [it] to someone from whom you won't get it back."

With such a loaded question I guess I'll have to tread carefully Cool

I'd respond by saying that perhaps Jesus was offering advice rather than an admonition. As for legality and ownership, I realise that morals have no place in this kind of argument and respectfully withdraw (all hail chipmunk stew defender of the rich and powerful Laughing

).
Also I'm sure the guys running the bank have the cleanest linen in the land and their breath smells as sweet as rose petals.
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chipmunk stew
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Posts: 833

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject:

catfish wrote:

chipmunk stew wrote:

catfish wrote:

[Jesus said], "If you have money, don't lend it at interest. Rather, give [it] to someone from whom you won't get it back."

With such a loaded question I guess I'll have to tread carefully Cool

).
Also I'm sure the guys running the bank have the cleanest linen in the land and their breath smells as sweet as rose petals.

Based on the link in your sig ( http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_ZionSummary.html ) I'm inferring that by "the rich and powerful" and "the guys running the bank" you are referring to the Zionists:

Quote:

The most logical explanation is that the Zionists are promoting other Zionists to top positions in the government, media, banking, Hollywood, and education. The more Zionists they promote, the easier it is for them to take control of the nation and supress evidence of their network.

• Zionist Power Structure In America
www.the7thfire.com chapter_7

• One of many lists of Jews:
www.reference.com/browse/wiki/List_of_Jews

_________________
"They, the jews, also have this thing about linage don't they?
We know a person from recent history who had a thing for linage and gene pools don't we?"
--Patrick Brown

aggle-rithm
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Posts: 557

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject:

catfish wrote:

I'd respond by saying that perhaps Jesus was offering advice rather than an admonition.

It was probably just another way of saying "turn the other cheek", but it was taken literally by the Church, which kept the western economy from developing for centuries because it deemed the loaning aspects of banking sinful.

lostpomme
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Posts: 94

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject:

aggle-rithm wrote:

catfish wrote:

I'd respond by saying that perhaps Jesus was offering advice rather than an admonition.

Which it obviously isn't since pursuit of money brings nothing but happiness. Thank god our western economy is now developed and everything is wonderful. Rolling Eyes

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chipmunk stew
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject:

aggle-rithm wrote:

catfish wrote:

I'd respond by saying that perhaps Jesus was offering advice rather than an admonition.

Right. He was illustrating a concrete way people can follow the moral lessons of the Golden Rule, the Good Samaritan, etc. etc.
_________________
"They, the jews, also have this thing about linage don't they?
We know a person from recent history who had a thing for linage and gene pools don't we?"
--Patrick Brown

aggle-rithm
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Posts: 557

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject:

lostpomme wrote:

Which it obviously isn't since pursuit of money brings nothing but happiness. Thank god our western economy is now developed and everything is wonderful. Rolling Eyes

"Happiness" is an individual concept. Economic systems demonstrate "prosperity", which is good for everyone, in general (although there are some latent dysfunctions, of course), including non-profit organizations such as churches. This is exactly why the Church finally wised up and rejected the idea that it was sinful to charge interest.

lostpomme
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:41 pm Post subject:

aggle-rithm wrote:

lostpomme wrote:

Which it obviously isn't since pursuit of money brings nothing but happiness. Thank god our western economy is now developed and everything is wonderful. Rolling Eyes

Wealth amassed, by means of equity or debt, does not breed prosperity for everyone, it breeds prosperity for the few at the expense of the many. The world is even less prosperous than it is happy.
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War is when the government tells you who the bad guy is. Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.

chipmunk stew
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Posts: 833

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject:

lostpomme wrote:

aggle-rithm wrote:

lostpomme wrote:

Which it obviously isn't since pursuit of money brings nothing but happiness. Thank god our western economy is now developed and everything is wonderful. Rolling Eyes

Wealth amassed, by means of equity or debt, does not breed prosperity for everyone, it breeds prosperity for the few at the expense of the many. The world is even less prosperous than it is happy.

For the reason aggle-rithm stated above, your last sentence is meaningless. You can say that the world is less prosperous than it was during timeframe-x in the past. In that case, you could produce data that would back you up.

I agree with part of your first point: global prosperity is not presently well-distributed globally. This is a huge and complex problem, and I fully support efforts that help reduce it.
_________________
"They, the jews, also have this thing about linage don't they?
We know a person from recent history who had a thing for linage and gene pools don't we?"
--Patrick Brown

lostpomme
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Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 94

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject:

chipmunk stew wrote:

lostpomme wrote:

aggle-rithm wrote:

lostpomme wrote:

Which it obviously isn't since pursuit of money brings nothing but happiness. Thank god our western economy is now developed and everything is wonderful. Rolling Eyes

Wealth amassed, by means of equity or debt, does not breed prosperity for everyone, it breeds prosperity for the few at the expense of the many. The world is even less prosperous than it is happy.

"prosper- to do what is desirable within the defined bounderies of a society. The term prosper is a social construct which in a "flat world" is generally defined in business terms (capitalistic gains). It is much more difficult to define and quantify prosperity in terms of spiritual enlightenment, however it may be more accurate if ones life goal is the pursuit of happiness rather than material gain."

It depends on ones own idea of prosperity. Nobody suffers as a result of mine.

Prosperity discovers vice, adversity discovers virtue. ~ Francis Bacon, i think.
Vice? Sin? Perhaps the church were onto something in the first place. For once.
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War is when the government tells you who the bad guy is. Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.

pepik
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:28 pm Post subject:

That's great. So what happened to the Federal Reserve conspiracy?

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