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Johnny Pixels
Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 932
Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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 Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| johndoex wrote: | | chipmunk stew wrote: |
Dylan was forced to delete the old forum and create a new and improved members-only forum:
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Delete the old forum? LMAO! Why do you guys lie when you are caught so easily in your lie?
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php
JDX didnt cause anything. The admins got fed up with the way the forum was being run and split. Dylan no longer has anyone to protect the forums from the above type of people (note the spin and lie right on this page).
They are wrecking the new LC forum and people are coming to my forum in droves. I respect Dylan and his work. But he needs to communicate more. |
Why do you refer to yourself in the third person, or are you a different Johndoex?
_________________
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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johndoex
Minor Poster
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Anti-sophist wrote: | THE NTSB IS NOT INCOMPETANT. THE NTSB, THE FAA, BOEING, THE ARINC STANDARD, AND THE ENTIRE DATA ACQUITION INDUSTRY KNOWS ABOUT THESE ERRORS AND CORRECTS (OR ACCEPTS) THEM EVERY SINGLE DAY.
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The above is all anyone needs to read.
The NTSB produced all the information we have. In A-S's own words.. they correct for these errors. A-S's argument is that the time the data is "measured" to the time it is "recorded" can be up to a 2 second delay. But even using his upper limit margin for error, it still is not enough to account for the altitude, trends, vertical speed, cross checked with system data, the animation, FDR, NTSB phone call (saying they produced the information based off the FDR), Radar, and ATC transcripts. A-S is holding onto an error that has already been corrected by the NTSB as he admits above. He continues to ignore the animation and that all parameters cross check.
Also.. A-S, it is spelled "incompetent". No "a". Ironic you would misspell that word..... huh?
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Ignatz
Moderate Poster
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 918
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| johndoex wrote: | | Anti-sophist wrote: | THE NTSB IS NOT INCOMPETANT. THE NTSB, THE FAA, BOEING, THE ARINC STANDARD, AND THE ENTIRE DATA ACQUITION INDUSTRY KNOWS ABOUT THESE ERRORS AND CORRECTS (OR ACCEPTS) THEM EVERY SINGLE DAY.
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. |
The above is all anyone needs to read.
The NTSB produced all the information we have. In A-S's own words.. they correct for these errors. A-S's argument is that the time the data is "measured" to the time it is "recorded" can be up to a 2 second delay. But even using his upper limit margin for error, it still is not enough to account for the altitude, trends, vertical speed, cross checked with system data, the animation, FDR, NTSB phone call (saying they produced the information based off the FDR), Radar, and ATC transcripts. A-S is holding onto an error that has already been corrected by the NTSB as he admits above. He continues to ignore the animation and that all parameters cross check.
Also.. A-S, it is spelled "incompetent". No "a". Ironic you would misspell that word..... huh? |
OK johndoex - we get the gist.
Now, what do you say happened at the Pentagon that day?
The plane came in much steeper and hit, but the poles were knocked down by "agents" for some reason?
It pulled up, flew off and the Pentagon was hit by something else (and the FDR was a plant with faulty data) ?
The plane parts recovered there, the DNA tests etc were all faked?
What do you believe happened? Your own explanation seems to be absent from all this technical debate.
_________________
So remember - next time you can't find a parking spot, go to plan B: blow up your car |
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Anti-sophist
Moderate Poster
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 531
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The above is all anyone needs to read.
The NTSB produced all the information we have. In A-S's own words.. they correct for these errors. |
Not in the data you have, they didn't. Try getting the real data.
| Quote: |
A-S's argument is that the time the data is "measured" to the time it is "recorded" can be up to a 2 second delay. |
Wrong, but on the right track.
| Quote: |
But even using his upper limit margin for error, it still is not enough to account for the altitude, trends, vertical speed, cross checked with system data, the animation, FDR, NTSB phone call (saying they produced the information based off the FDR), Radar, and ATC transcripts. |
Wrong.
| Quote: |
A-S is holding onto an error that has already been corrected by the NTSB |
In the real data. Not your data. So... wrong.
| Quote: |
as he admits above. He continues to ignore the animation and that all parameters cross check. |
Wrong.
I would explain why you are wrong in each case but you'd just ignore it and repeat the same tired tripe over and over and over and over. It's all been explained to you repeatedly and no one unconvinced is still listening. The information is relatively easy to attain for anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty. |
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Jay Ref
Moderate Poster
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 511
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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JDX apparently has no answer to my questions. C'mon John; man-up and tell us where you are going with your AA77 "research".
Given: JDX is correct and has proven that the FDR data "proves" AA77 missed the Pentagon by at least 200 ft.
This brings to mind a few questions:
- Where is AA77?
- Where are the witnesses that saw AA77 miss the Pentagon by at least 200 ft?
- Why are the remains of the passengers of flight 77 found at the Pentagon?
- Why is the wreckage of an AA B757 found at the Pentagon?
- Given that the FDR we are *ahem* researching was part of said wreckage; how did it get in the Pentagon?
- If we are to assume it was planted; then why doesn't it show perfect data to uphold the government story?
- Why would you even consider using the FDR data since if the data is correct the FDR should not exist as wreckage since the plane did not crash...and if it is wrong it of course does exist but is obviously errored and hence suspect.
- Where did this FDR come from since AA77 flew away to somewhere/nowhere/anywhere....? (After engaging it's Romulan cloaking device of course...)
- What hit the light poles?
- What hit the Pentagon?
- What is your evidence....for anything...anything at all?
Still waiting......
(crickets chirp)
-z
_________________
"Knowledge is good"
-Emil Faber
"God in heaven. Here's the hard-headed, evidence-only freak who will not, like we CTers, indulge himself in self-inflating, utterly misconceived fantasies." -kbo234 (who is NOT a nazi) briefly makes sense |
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johndoex
Minor Poster
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Anti-sophist"]
Thats all A-S knows how to say. lol. He still hasnt ever addressed the animation. Its like a merry-go-round with him (and he wonders why i keep having to repeat myself.. its not my fault he just dont get it). The usual BS from these disinfo types.
Hey A-S... why dont you call the NTSB yourself and get the information we obtained? (202)314-6000. Afraid to find out that you are "wrong"?
I can be a guy on the internet saying "wrong" all day too... but instead we go to the source...
Once again.. the animation is corrected for all these errors. A-SS's continued denial of the facts holds on to a "possible" error of 2 seconds in one source.. the csv file. He never addresses any other source of information.. ever. The way he tries to escape and ignore speaking about other sources is his usual intellectual reply of "wrong". lmao... .weak.
Not a very strong debate tactic there.. A-SS.
Here is one of our newest members by the way.. just got the email yesterday... we will be putting together a list of all names and credentials soon. Stay tuned..
| Quote: | Sir/Ma’am,
I am interested in joining your group. I feel I have exception experience in helping.
My experience in aviation includes:
-Over 20 years in the USAF
--USAF Accident investigation Board President
--Flew the F-111, T38, and F-15E
--Combat experience in the F-15E includes Desert Storm and four tours of duty in Northern and Southern Watch
--Weapons Requirements Officer, USAG HQ, Pentagon
--Standard and Evaluations Flight Examiner, Command level
-Currently Captain for JetBlue Airways |
Cheers!
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johndoex
Minor Poster
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Jay Ref wrote: | JDX apparently has no answer to my questions. C'mon John; man-up and tell us where you are going with your AA77 "research".
Given: JDX is correct and has proven that the FDR data "proves" AA77 missed the Pentagon by at least 200 ft.
This brings to mind a few questions:
- Where is AA77?
- Where are the witnesses that saw AA77 miss the Pentagon by at least 200 ft?
- Why are the remains of the passengers of flight 77 found at the Pentagon?
- Why is the wreckage of an AA B757 found at the Pentagon?
- Given that the FDR we are *ahem* researching was part of said wreckage; how did it get in the Pentagon?
- If we are to assume it was planted; then why doesn't it show perfect data to uphold the government story?
- Why would you even consider using the FDR data since if the data is correct the FDR should not exist as wreckage since the plane did not crash...and if it is wrong it of course does exist but is obviously errored and hence suspect.
- Where did this FDR come from since AA77 flew away to somewhere/nowhere/anywhere....? (After engaging it's Romulan cloaking device of course...)
- What hit the light poles?
- What hit the Pentagon?
- What is your evidence....for anything...anything at all?
Still waiting......
(crickets chirp)
-z |
I have just one question for you. Show me a clear video of an American Airlines 757 hitting the pentagon.
Your belief in the official fairy tale is just that. .a belief... you are anchored by it and in denial of all the conflicts... so you spend your days attacking others sitting in front of your computer as to not address reality in your life. You are a sad individual. We dont know all the answers. We know there is a significant problem with the official story based on information and FACTS that we have. We are trying to get answers. You blindly follow any govt official that tells you a story. Get a life.
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chipmunk stew
Moderate Poster
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 833
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| johndoex wrote: | | Your belief in the official fairy tale is just that. .a belief... you are anchored by it and in denial of all the conflicts... so you spend your days attacking others sitting in front of your computer as to not address reality in your life. You are a sad individual. We dont know all the answers. We know there is a significant problem with the official story based on information and FACTS that we have. We are trying to get answers. You blindly follow any govt official that tells you a story. Get a life. |
http://www.lair2000.net/night3/wav/download.php?f=Jacks-Obsession.zip
[JACK]
Hmmm...Interesting reaction....but what does it MEAN???
[VAMPIRES]
Something's up with Jack
Something's up with Jack
Don't know if we're ever going to get him back
[WEREWOLF]
He's all alone up there
Locked away inside
[CORPSE MOTHER]
Never says a word
[CORPSE KID]
Hope he hasn't died
[ALL]
Something's up with Jack
Something's up with Jack
[JACK]
Christmas time is buzzing im my skull
Will it let me be? I cannot tell
There are som many things I cannot grasp
When I think I've got, and then at last
Through my bony fingers it does slip
Like a snowflake in a fiery grip
Something's here I'm not quite getting
Though I try, I keep forgetting
Like a memory long since past
Here in an instantm gone in a flash
What does it mean?
What does it mean?
In these little bric-a-brac
A secret's waiting to be cracked
These dolls and toys confuse me so
Confound it all, I love it though
Simple objects, nothing more
Bout something's hidden through a door
Though I do not have the key
Something's there I cannot see
What does it mean?
What does it mean?
What does it mean?
Hmm...
I've read there Christmas books so many times
I k now the stories and I know the rhymes
I know the Christmas carols all by heart
My skull's so full, it's tearing me apart
As often as I've read them, something's wrong
So hard to put my bony finger on
Or perhaps it's not as deep
As I've been led to think
Am I trying much too hard?
Of course! I've been too close to see
The answer's right in front of me
Right in front of me
It's simple really, very clear
Like music drifting in the air
Invisible, but everywhere
Just because I cannot see it
Doesn't mean I can't believe it
You know, I think this Christmas thing
Is not as tricky as it seems
And why should they have all the fun?
It should belong to anyone
Not anyone, in fact, but me
Whu, I could make a Christmas tree
And there's no reason I can find
I couldn't handle Christmas time
I bet I could improve it too
And that's exactly what I'll do
Hee, hee, hee
Eureka! I've got it
_________________
"They, the jews, also have this thing about linage don't they?
We know a person from recent history who had a thing for linage and gene pools don't we?"
--Patrick Brown |
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Ignatz
Moderate Poster
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 918
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| johndoex wrote: | | Jay Ref wrote: | JDX apparently has no answer to my questions. C'mon John; man-up and tell us where you are going with your AA77 "research".
Given: JDX is correct and has proven that the FDR data "proves" AA77 missed the Pentagon by at least 200 ft.
This brings to mind a few questions:
- Where is AA77?
- Where are the witnesses that saw AA77 miss the Pentagon by at least 200 ft?
- Why are the remains of the passengers of flight 77 found at the Pentagon?
- Why is the wreckage of an AA B757 found at the Pentagon?
- Given that the FDR we are *ahem* researching was part of said wreckage; how did it get in the Pentagon?
- If we are to assume it was planted; then why doesn't it show perfect data to uphold the government story?
- Why would you even consider using the FDR data since if the data is correct the FDR should not exist as wreckage since the plane did not crash...and if it is wrong it of course does exist but is obviously errored and hence suspect.
- Where did this FDR come from since AA77 flew away to somewhere/nowhere/anywhere....? (After engaging it's Romulan cloaking device of course...)
- What hit the light poles?
- What hit the Pentagon?
- What is your evidence....for anything...anything at all?
Still waiting......
(crickets chirp)
-z |
I have just one question for you. Show me a clear video of an American Airlines 757 hitting the pentagon.
Your belief in the official fairy tale is just that. .a belief... you are anchored by it and in denial of all the conflicts... so you spend your days attacking others sitting in front of your computer as to not address reality in your life. You are a sad individual. We dont know all the answers. We know there is a significant problem with the official story based on information and FACTS that we have. We are trying to get answers. You blindly follow any govt official that tells you a story. Get a life. |
Same question johndoex - what do you believe happened at the Pentagon on 9/11 ?
_________________
So remember - next time you can't find a parking spot, go to plan B: blow up your car |
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Anti-sophist
Moderate Poster
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 531
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| johndoex wrote: |
Thats all A-S knows how to say. lol. |
Wrong. I've debunked every single statement from your mouth at least twice, already. I will not repeat it a third time. If you or anyone else wants to hear your same tired tripe debunked, it's easy to find in this thread and on JREF.
If you come up with something new, I will bother to go into more detail. If your tactic is to repeat the same wrong nonsense over and over, I will just resort to telling you that you are wrong, and it's already been demonstrated.
| Quote: |
He still hasnt ever addressed the animation. |
Yes I have, repeatedly. Like all CTers, you ignore it and repeat your same tired nonsense ad nauseum.
| Quote: |
Its like a merry-go-round with him (and he wonders why i keep having to repeat myself.. its not my fault he just dont get it). The usual BS from these disinfo types.
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The reason you repeat yourself is because you don't have the logical faculities or intellectual honesty to admit you're wrong. You keep repeating yourself because you think the noisier you are, the more people will believe you. You believe that the more belief there is no your nonsense, the truer it becomes.
| Quote: |
Hey A-S... why dont you call the NTSB yourself and get the information we obtained? (202)314-6000. Afraid to find out that you are "wrong"?
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Call them and get what information? I'm not questioning the fact that you got information. I'm questioning your interpretation of it. I don't need to call up the NTSB and ask them to verify these utterly simplistic concepts that you don't understand about FDR data.
| Quote: |
I can be a guy on the internet saying "wrong" all day too... but instead we go to the source...
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And the source proves you wrong, but because you don't understand the source, you find a way to screw it up so badly that you think it provides evidence.
| Quote: |
Once again.. the animation is corrected for all these errors. |
Wrong. For god's sake they didn't even adjust the data to correct mag. north for true north, so the map was rotated slightly. And your crack research made up a big long video about if and posted it on youtube w/o ever realizing that it was fixable in 1 trivial step. As a "pilot" the fact that you didn't check the orientation of the data versus the orientation of the map and realize that one was magnetic north and one was true north... that's just sad.
| Quote: | | A-SS's continued denial of the facts holds on to a "possible" error of 2 seconds in one source.. the csv file. He never addresses any other source of information.. ever. |
Wrong.
| Quote: |
The way he tries to escape and ignore speaking about other sources is his usual intellectual reply of "wrong". lmao... .weak.
Not a very strong debate tactic there.. A-SS.
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I've already debunked the stupid claims. I'm not going to repeat myself forever. That's your job. If you cared, at all, about the answers, you'd have tried to understand the first 3 times I repeated them. I'm done repeating myself to a brick wall.
| Quote: |
Here is one of our newest members by the way.. just got the email yesterday... we will be putting together a list of all names and credentials soon. Stay tuned..
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I can't wait.
| Quote: |
-Over 20 years in the USAF
--USAF Accident investigation Board President
--Flew the F-111, T38, and F-15E
--Combat experience in the F-15E includes Desert Storm and four tours of duty in Northern and Southern Watch
--Weapons Requirements Officer, USAG HQ, Pentagon
--Standard and Evaluations Flight Examiner, Command level
-Currently Captain for JetBlue Airways |
Can't wait to hear what he has to say about the FDR. |
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johndoex
Minor Poster
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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You havent debunked anything.. not really sure how you can debunk a question. You have not addressed any of these questions in a professional manner. Just your typical "wrong, lie.. etc" replies. No matter how many times you say it, it still doesnt mean anything till you answer the following questions. Half of them you never even answered because you havent even bothered to look past your "digital buffer"..lol... and you just dont have the knowledge or capacity to address.
Address them if you wish.. but we will not stop until the US Govt ANSWERS them.. (not some guy on the net saying "debunked"over and over.. you cannot debunk a question.. but im not surprised you think you can..lol).. We are picking up new professionals every day just like the one you saw above.. (emails to join have grown rapidly since the latest NTSB call).
I will keep posting these questions till you address every one with more than "huh?", "wrong".. "lie"... you are weak... very weak. Jay Ref puts up a better argument than you..lol (albeit he is just a side-kick wannabe).
Questions for the US Govt regarding AA77 Flight Data Recorder.
1. The current FDR shows 480' MSL True Altitude, too high to hit the light poles. What are your findings of True Altitude at end of data recording 09:37:44. Why did you provide a Flight Data Recorder that shows the aircraft too high without a side letter of explanation? How did you come to your conclusion.
2. What is the vertical speed at end of data recording :44. How did you come to your conclusion.
3. What is the Absolute Altitude and end of data recording? How did you come to your conclusion.
4. Why does the csv file show the altimeter being set in the baro cor column on the descent through FL180, but the animation altimeter does not show it being set?(This is a blatant cover-up to confuse the average layman in hopes no one would adjust for local pressure to get True Altitude. Too bad for them we caught it).
5. Why do the current G Forces for the last minute of data correspond to the changes in vertical speed, yet at end of data :44-:45 it shows an increase in vertical speed never accounting for any type of level off to be level with the lawn as shown in the DoD video?
6. Do you have any video showing a clear impact and/or of the plane on its approach to impact?
7. Why does your animation show a flight path north of the reported flight path?
8. Why are there no system indication of any impact with any object up to and after :44?
9. Why does the csv file and animation show a right bank when the official report requires a left bank to be consistent with physical damage to the generator?
10. How did you come to the conclusion of 09:37:45 as the official impact time?
11. What is the exact chain of custody of the FDR? What date/time was it found? Where exactly was it found? Please provide documentation and names.
12. Why does the hijack timeline show a 3 min interval for hijacking to take place? Why did Capt Burlingame not follow protocol for the Common Strategy prior to 9/11?
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Johnny Pixels
Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 932
Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| johndoex wrote: | You havent debunked anything.. not really sure how you can debunk a question. You have not addressed any of these questions in a professional manner. Just your typical "wrong, lie.. etc" replies. No matter how many times you say it, it still doesnt mean anything till you answer the following questions. Half of them you never even answered because you havent even bothered to look past your "digital buffer"..lol... and you just dont have the knowledge or capacity to address.
Address them if you wish.. but we will not stop until the US Govt ANSWERS them.. (not some guy on the net saying "debunked"over and over.. you cannot debunk a question.. but im not surprised you think you can..lol).. We are picking up new professionals every day just like the one you saw above.. (emails to join have grown rapidly since the latest NTSB call).
I will keep posting these questions till you address every one with more than "huh?", "wrong".. "lie"... you are weak... very weak. Jay Ref puts up a better argument than you..lol (albeit he is just a side-kick wannabe).
Questions for the US Govt regarding AA77 Flight Data Recorder.
1. The current FDR shows 480' MSL True Altitude, too high to hit the light poles. What are your findings of True Altitude at end of data recording 09:37:44. Why did you provide a Flight Data Recorder that shows the aircraft too high without a side letter of explanation? How did you come to your conclusion.
2. What is the vertical speed at end of data recording :44. How did you come to your conclusion.
3. What is the Absolute Altitude and end of data recording? How did you come to your conclusion.
4. Why does the csv file show the altimeter being set in the baro cor column on the descent through FL180, but the animation altimeter does not show it being set?(This is a blatant cover-up to confuse the average layman in hopes no one would adjust for local pressure to get True Altitude. Too bad for them we caught it).
5. Why do the current G Forces for the last minute of data correspond to the changes in vertical speed, yet at end of data :44-:45 it shows an increase in vertical speed never accounting for any type of level off to be level with the lawn as shown in the DoD video?
6. Do you have any video showing a clear impact and/or of the plane on its approach to impact?
7. Why does your animation show a flight path north of the reported flight path?
8. Why are there no system indication of any impact with any object up to and after :44?
9. Why does the csv file and animation show a right bank when the official report requires a left bank to be consistent with physical damage to the generator?
10. How did you come to the conclusion of 09:37:45 as the official impact time?
11. What is the exact chain of custody of the FDR? What date/time was it found? Where exactly was it found? Please provide documentation and names.
12. Why does the hijack timeline show a 3 min interval for hijacking to take place? Why did Capt Burlingame not follow protocol for the Common Strategy prior to 9/11? |
So if the FDR data is faked, why did they fake it wrong?
If the FDR data is accurate, where is the plane?
And as for your request for a video of a 757 hitting the Pentagon, how about you provide a video of it missing it?
_________________
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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johndoex
Minor Poster
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Anti-sophist wrote: |
Wrong. For god's sake they didn't even adjust the data to correct mag. north for true north, so the map was rotated slightly. And your crack research made up a big long video about if and posted it on youtube w/o ever realizing that it was fixable in 1 trivial step. As a "pilot" the fact that you didn't check the orientation of the data versus the orientation of the map and realize that one was magnetic north and one was true north... that's just sad.
. |
Ok.. here is where i have just realized how much of an idiot you are. Sorry.. but now you are just totally way off. First of all, the csv file has a True Course column (i told you this before. .have you figured out how to open the file to part 2? I bet you havent..lol.. you seemed to ignore this fact the last time i told you.. typical). Originally, i thought the same as you, thats why i didnt pursue the flight path. But then our research team came back from DC and an eyewitness matched the flight path (north of the Citgo), so i took a closer look and made the video. The NTSB has to answer for it. They produced it. You make excuses for it as to not disrupt your belief. You come up with theory, we have fact.. (ironic.. huh? ..lol)
Second.. The animation the NTSB produced via the FDR RAW file (you know. the file you said has no errors), Radar and ATC shows the aircraft taxiing out on Yankee to Zulu taking off from runway 30 at IAD. I suppose they never corrected for True north there either? The csv file also shows VOR/DME which corresponds and matches the animation. But you wouldnt know that, because you probably still havent figured out how to open part 2...lol
Now you're just a dumbass and you probably dont deserve anymore replies from me... but i'll stop by to watch you squirm every once in a while and say "wrong" 20 more times without sourcing your claims.
Do you know what VOR/DME is? Do you know how to work Slant Range?
A-S reminds me of a little kid with his fingers in his ears.. eyes closed.. stomping his feet.. screaming blah blah blah.. not realizing someone stopped talking... then opens his eyes.. and yells "NO!"... lol
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Last edited by johndoex on Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:42 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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johndoex
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Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Johnny Pixels wrote: |
And as for your request for a video of a 757 hitting the Pentagon, how about you provide a video of it missing it? |
Find the quote on pilotsfor911truth.org that says we believe the aircraft did not hit the pentagon. Thanks...
We stick to facts. The fact is the aircraft FDR shows too high to hit the poles and north of the physical damage path. Several eyewitness our research team spoke to confirm this fact. Be my guest and send your own team to DC and/or call the NTSB yourself.
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Ignatz
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 918
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| johndoex wrote: | | Johnny Pixels wrote: |
And as for your request for a video of a 757 hitting the Pentagon, how about you provide a video of it missing it? |
Find the quote on pilotsfor911truth.org that says we believe the aircraft did not hit the pentagon. Thanks...
We stick to facts. The fact is the aircraft FDR shows too high to hit the poles and north of the physical damage path. Several eyewitness our research team spoke to confirm this fact. Be my guest and send your own team to DC and/or call the NTSB yourself. |
So, what do you believe happened at the Pentagon on 9/11 ?
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johndoex
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Joined: 17 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So, what do you believe happened at the Pentagon on 9/11 ? |
I believe we have information from a govt agency (the NTSB), that conflicts with the official story.
I believe the govt needs to answers for these conflicts. (not some guy on the net that holds onto "possible" errors trying to convince others not to look further...)
I believe there is a group (albeit very small), of so called "skeptics" (read: govt loyalists) who believe anything their govt tells them. And then when things dont make sense.. they will fill in the blanks with any excuse they can possibly think of as a defense mechanism of denial.
I believe that the majority of Americans want answers (as seen in many different polls).
I believe the official story is not accurate.
I believe some people (which is shrinking), take the official story as gospel no matter what.
I believe something made those holes and explosions and the pentagon.
I believe something made the physical damage at the pentagon.
I believe people died at the pentagon.
I have no idea exactly what happened at the pentagon.. nor does anyone here... That is what we are trying to find out.
(note: everything said above happens to also be fact)
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Ignatz
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 918
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| johndoex wrote: | | Quote: | | So, what do you believe happened at the Pentagon on 9/11 ? |
I have no idea what happened at the pentagon.. nor does anyone here...
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Ah, OK
Do you have a plausible theory?
Do you have any clue what a totally thorough independent re-investigation might reveal that differs from the "OCT" ?
What is your point?
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johndoex
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johndoex
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Ignatz wrote: | | johndoex wrote: | | Quote: | | So, what do you believe happened at the Pentagon on 9/11 ? |
I have no idea what happened at the pentagon.. nor does anyone here...
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Ah, OK
Do you have a plausible theory?
Do you have any clue what a totally thorough independent re-investigation might reveal that differs from the "OCT" ?
What is your point? |
re-read my edit.
Theory? read the mission statement on http://pilotsfor911truth.org
Our mission statement pisses off alot of people (read: govt loyalists), because we do not offer theory or anything for them to "debunk". This aggravates them. .as seen readily in this thread...lol.
We have facts which conflict with the official story. Govt loyalists such as A-S try to offer excuses based on "possible" error (using the largest perceived margin.. which still doesnt explain anything) to try and explain these conflicts and then call victory over and over saying "debunked!"..lol. Thank goodness real professionals dont buy into his BS when all he can offer is "wrong" for each reply... 
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Anti-sophist
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Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 531
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| johndoex wrote: |
We have facts which conflict with the official story. |
No you don't. You have poor interpretations of the facts that conflict with the official story. Proper interpretations fit with the official story nicely.
Actual errors. All measurements have error. This is the fourth time, in this thread, I have pointed this out to you.
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using the largest perceived margin..
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That's how science works. Error bounds, confidence intervals, and signal-to-noise ratios. Your signal is within the noise, chief. It's within the error bounds. Come to grips with it. This is the fourth time in this thread I have pointed this out to you.
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which still doesnt explain anything |
Except both of your dopey lightpole analyses. This is the third time in this thread I have pointed this out to you.
| Quote: | | Thank goodness real professionals dont buy into his BS |
They don't? Name one. |
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A Sharp Major
9/11 Truth critic
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 237
Location: In the van with the blacked out windows, parked outside your home.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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johndoex boasted of the newest recruit
| Quote: | Sir/Ma’am,
I am interested in joining your group. I feel I have exception experience in helping.
My experience in aviation includes:
-Over 20 years in the USAF
--USAF Accident investigation Board President
--Flew the F-111, T38, and F-15E
--Combat experience in the F-15E includes Desert Storm and four tours of duty in Northern and Southern Watch
--Weapons Requirements Officer, USAG HQ, Pentagon
--Standard and Evaluations Flight Examiner, Command level
-Currently Captain for JetBlue Airways |
| Quote: | | I feel I have exception experience in helping. |
What kind of grade school intro is that from a senior officer? I say senior because he was
| Quote: | | USAF Accident investigation Board President |
Boards convene as required. A USAF AIB isn't a standing organisation so being president of one isn't as big a deal as the poster would have us believe. Hope he didn't write the report though.
JetBlue? You'd be hard pushed to call their pilots dependable. They should have said 'no' to this.
http://articles.news.aol.com/business/_a/pilot-fatigue-test-lands-jetb lue-in-hot/20061023093309990001
JetBlue? One of the few airlines to make a profit post 9/11? No conspiracy guys smell a rat?
Maybe the USAF helper is LJ Chavez in his latest guise.
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Anti-sophist
Moderate Poster
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 531
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I believe the govt needs to answers for these conflicts. (not some guy on the net that holds onto "possible" errors trying to convince others not to look further...)
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The government would need to teach you the basic science to explain the apparent conflicts. It's a waste of my tax dollars teaching someone who refuses to be taught.
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I believe there is a group (albeit very small), of so called "skeptics" (read: govt loyalists) who believe anything their govt tells them. |
The government didn't tell me anything. I saw the FDR data _you_ provided and came to my own conclusions based on my knowledge of serial framed data. There was no government memo.
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And then when things dont make sense.. they will fill in the blanks with any excuse they can possibly think of as a defense mechanism of denial.
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Excuses like "science".
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I believe that the majority of Americans want answers (as seen in many different polls).
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To the right questions.
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(note: everything said above happens to also be fact) |
Haha. |
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Johnny Pixels
Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 932
Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| johndoex wrote: | | Quote: | | So, what do you believe happened at the Pentagon on 9/11 ? |
I believe we have information from a govt agency (the NTSB), that conflicts with the official story. |
So why didn't the NTSB fake the FDR data so it matched the official story?
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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johndoex
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Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Good question Johnny.. how about you call and ask them.. record it please.. 202-314-6000. Ask for Jim Ritter.
Time of reported impact is 09:37:45. Many parameters are recorded within the :45 time frame. Therefore the recorder was recording during this period. It corresponds to the animation which stops 1 second prior to the pentagon wall over the highway. Based on speed and distance calculations, this is correct timing.
A-SS quote at JREF
| Quote: | | You are correct, however, when you state that the FDR itself was recording until the time of the crash. The data, however, wasn't necessarily valid up to that point, and for some parameters, up to 2 seconds of valid data is missing. |
He feels that up to 2 seconds of data is missing. If the recorder recorded 173' (473MSL) up to 2 seconds prior to impact, the aircraft would need 14,190 feet per min descent rate to impact the pentagon. I think A-SS might even agree that is impossible.. based on his own upper margin for error.
Based on current trrends of 66 ft/sec descent and last recorded altitude of 473'MSL (480 in the animation, based off the raw FDR which A-S admits has no errors, Radar and ATC), this altitude would have to be recorded somewhere around 09:37:38 time frame at the LEAST. Account for some type of leveling due to almost 5000 fpm descent rate (calculated from below Vmo).. and you're looking at this altitude would have to be recorded somewhere around 09:37:30-32. (by the way A-S.. fix your typos on JREF for time stamps.. you're all over the place.. 09:44:47...09:34:47... etc etc.. a bit dyslexic? lol)
A-S likes to claim that there is a "time slip". But already admits the recorder recorded up to 2 seconds prior to impact.
conclusion -
If A-S says the recorder recorded up to 2 seconds prior to impact, and he needs the 173' pressure altitude to record at 09:37:38... where is the rest of the data up to 09:37:43? A-S's own "debunk" conflicts with itself. And this is why he is the only one on the net trying to make excuses for govt fairy tales... even the NTSB wont touch it... call em A-S. Number is above.
Still waitnig for A-S to address the animation...
Cheers!
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Last edited by johndoex on Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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johndoex
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Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Oh. .almost forgot.. the "alternate analysis" working back from the impact point to the light poles is not mine. Its Billizilla's (it seems you ignored this the first time i told you.. so i'll type it again..)
Billzilla is the resident JREF "747 Capt.".. you "debunked" his analysis.. i just cleaned it up for him with proper elevations.
Once again.. thanks!
ok.. enough feeding the trolls for today... had fun! Until next time folks..
Cheers!
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Johnny Pixels
Moderate Poster
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 932
Location: A Sooper Sekrit Bunker
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| johndoex wrote: | Good question Johnny.. how about you call and ask them.. record it please.. 202-314-6000. Ask for Jim Ritter.
Time of reported impact is 09:37:45. Many parameters are recorded within the :45 time frame. Therefore the recorder was recording during this period. It corresponds to the animation which stops 1 second prior to the pentagon wall over the highway. Based on speed and distance calculations, this is correct timing.
A-SS quote at JREF
| Quote: | | You are correct, however, when you state that the FDR itself was recording until the time of the crash. The data, however, wasn't necessarily valid up to that point, and for some parameters, up to 2 seconds of valid data is missing. |
He feels that up to 2 seconds of data is missing. If the recorder recorded 173' (473MSL) up to 2 seconds prior to impact, the aircraft would need 14,190 feet per second descent to impact the pentagon. I think A-SS might even agree that is impossible.. based on his own upper margin for error.
Based on current trrends of 66 ft/sec descent and last recorded altitude of 473'MSL (480 in the animation, based off the raw FDR which A-S admits has no errors, Radar and ATC), this altitude would have to be recorded somewhere around 09:37:38 time frame.
A-S likes to claim that there is a "time slip". But already admits the recorder recorded up to 2 seconds prior to impact.
conclusion -
If A-S says the recorder recorded up to 2 seconds prior to impact, and he needs the 173' pressure altitude to record at 09:37:38... where is the rest of the data up to 09:37:43? A-S's own "debunk" conflicts with itself. And this is why he is the only one on the net trying to make excuses for govt fairy tales... even the NTSB wont touch it... call em A-S. Number is above.
Still waitnig for A-S to address the animation...
Cheers! |
But why would they release data which is incriminating? If you think they won't release pentagon videos because they would not show a 757 crashing, why would they release FDR recordings that show a 757 not crashing?
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I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. - Umberto Eco
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Anti-sophist
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Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 531
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| johndoex wrote: |
He feels that up to 2 seconds of data is missing. If the recorder recorded 173' (473MSL) up to 2 seconds prior to impact, the aircraft would need 14,190 feet per min descent rate to impact the pentagon. I think A-SS might even agree that is impossible.. based on his own upper margin for error.
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Still wrong as you forget, again, to add the measured->record delay. Two seconds since the last recorded data point doesn't imply two seconds since the last measurement.
As for your altimeter calculation, once you can convince other conspiracy theorists that this tripe isn't garbage, I'll consider dealing with it. As best as I can tell, you ignore the basic science of how altimeters work and have shown yourself to be repeatedly incompetant in its analysis.
| Quote: |
Based on current trrends of 66 ft/sec descent and last recorded altitude of 473'MSL (480 in the animation, based off the raw FDR which A-S admits has no errors, Radar and ATC), this altitude would have to be recorded somewhere around 09:37:38 time frame at the LEAST. Account for some type of leveling due to almost 5000 fpm descent rate (calculated from below Vmo).. and you're looking at this altitude would have to be recorded somewhere around 09:37:30-32. (by the way A-S.. fix your typos on JREF for time stamps.. |
This is pretty much gibberish based on garbage data that even other CTers still reject. That's what cracks me up. You are trying to convince me when other crazy people think you are crazy.
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A-S likes to claim that there is a "time slip". |
Because it's a "fact".
| Quote: |
But already admits the recorder recorded up to 2 seconds prior to impact.
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Recorded, yes. Not measured.
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If A-S says the recorder recorded up to 2 seconds prior to impact, and he needs the 173' pressure altitude to record at 09:37:38... where is the rest of the data up to 09:37:43? A-S's own "debunk" conflicts with itself. And this is why he is the only one on the net trying to make excuses for govt fairy tales... even the NTSB wont touch it... call em A-S. Number is above.
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Why are you still repeating this stupid *? How many times do I have to tell you: MY ANALYSIS IS ONLY A PARTIAL DEBUNK OF YOUR STUPID ANALYSIS. THE REST OF IT HAS TO DO WITH YOUR TERRIBLE INTERPRETATION OF ALTIMETER DATA.
Alone, the "time slip" errors and other issues DO NOT FULLY EXPLAIN your stupid altimeter analysis. THE REST OF THE EXPLAINATION HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT ALTIMETERS ARE NOT RATED FOR THOSE SPEEDS AND PRESSURES.
This is well documented, even by CTists.
| Quote: |
Still waitnig for A-S to address the animation...
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It's been done so many times it makes my head hurt. Try making me repeat things less. If you can go one post w/o making me repeat myself, I'll consider repeating the problems with your animation analysis. |
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johndoex
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Anti-sophist
Moderate Poster
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 531
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| johndoex wrote: | A-S quote - "You're wrong.. .even others see it... i dont have any sources....stupid.. stupid.. stupid..."
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I would appreciate it if you didn't quote me falsely. It's dishonest.
As you are well aware, credentials are unimportant. Analysis is what matters. I notice you have no professional instrumentation engineers on the crack team. I guess that work all falls to "15 year Technology Expert" UnderTow. He was half way to understanding before he vanished into thin air, so hopefully he's been working furiously. Luckily he already knows enough to debunk your lightpole analyses.
I've been waiting about a month now, and I don't really have my hopes up. Luckily I'm not going anywhere, so I'll be sure to interject into any and all of your future analyses with interruptions for silly corrections for "facts", "science", and "math". |
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johndoex
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Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: |
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I rarely get to see UT lately. I see you more than i see UT. He has a family and is a busy man.
We do have accident investigators on board.. something you lack. They all say when analyzing the FDR data. .the csv file and animations are produced and corrected for any errors (just as altimeters and ADC are corrected during installation for position error.. as is addressed ad naseum). They say it would be useless, sloppy and unprofessional to offer a time stamp on a time frame in which it didnt occur. Although you are right these errors do occur in fractions of a second when tabulating data to the csv file (not 2,3 or 4 seconds as you keep moving your error margin..lol).. those errors are accounted for in a professional manner. The NTSB is not some fly-by-night agency which does not account for errors when tabulating a csv file. They also produced an animation based off the raw data FDR (something you agree has no errors), Radar and ATC transcripts with very sophisticated equipment. You are holding onto the possibility they did a sloppy unprofessional job. And.. they (the US Govt) might use that excuse as we squeeze them further. However, even if they use that excuse.. .they need to account of an almost 8 second time slip. There are only so many times the US Govt can use the "incompetent" card. Hold on to what you prefer A-S.. your analysis of "possibility" is weak at best.
Be sure to listen to the phone call Snowygrouch made when calling an FDR company who says, "it is super accurate..."
A-S, you try to cloud the conversation with fractions of a second possibilities.. you try to muddy the waters with nothing of substance.. you are a classic disinfo idiot who will claim "debunk" victory based on questions that cant be debunked. You are the poster child of the classic and typical "stale mate is still a victory' since it slows progress and momentum.. little do you know internet forums is not where the action is... best of luck to you and your computer.. lol
So.. whats your name A-S? What company do you work for? I'll have Jeff look you up...
Cheers!
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