Too Many Shills Spoiling For The Truth Movement's Downfall

[thought criminal]

I think recent debates on here confirm that shillery is alive and kicking. I will not be returning until the likes of Brown and Co are kicked off here for good.

If the moderators/admin cannot see what is going on here then I despair.

The constant baiting of Andrew Johnson is totally out of order and he deserves to be supported more. No one is backing him up. He has been the target of an organised attack strategy.

It now looks like Tony Gosling has also become a victim of their smear campaign. This place has been infiltrated to the hilt and I refuse to mingle with the despicable fraternity whose only aim is to crush the UK Movement.


I say to the admin of this site to trace their IP adresses and do some investigations and you will find out who is who.

All the best,

TC

[rodin]

Don't forget to smear me too NPT disinfo specialist. What was it you called me again?

I give you one chance to redeem yourself. Why were 5 Israelis cheering and filming the demise of WTC and why did they claim that 'Our purpose was to document the event?'

And what significance does this 'document the event' claim have to the fact that they were arrested with Arab clothing in their van?

[Fallious]

Oh look, a thread about the omnipotent power of shills. I wonder who would desire to spread such feeling.

[rodin]

[flamesong]

[Bongo]

[Patrick Brown]

TC

That's you that is.

[John White]

There is the small slightly embarising fact that Prole's back up ID was in place rather far ahead of the Prole ID being banned:

[paul wright]

You know for a while I felt very defensive of TC. He came here expressing an opinion or two, got a lot of flak, and ultimately started aggressive posts back in like ilk, which put me off him a bit.
Now this forum is producing such great stuff - look at the bird flu thread for example- these nonsensical little arguments and flames over the how and what of the material seem absurd
Let's keep it together brethren (sorry sisters you are included but there remains a nationwide shortage) There's more we can agree on than disagree

[marky 54]

[THETRUTHWILLSETU3]

Marky - you should change your name to "Village Idiot"

[uselesseater]

We all know who the Shills are. It's painfully obvious sometimes and I'm not refering to Andrew or Tony.

We shouldn't give them the oxygen of a reply and just let their attempts to distract people with meaningless nonsense like the NPT fall off the bottom of the page.

TC that avatar is disgusting. TTWSU3 that avatar is rubbish.

[marky 54]

[scubadiver]

Just to put in my 2p, I wouldn't regard Andrew as a shill. Although he may suspect the collapses were not just CD, I'd say the speed in which he sent me some DVDs for my WR talk suggests otherwise.

[andrewwatson]

For my money a shill is someone who spends most of their time attacking other, hard-working, committed Truthers.

Here's what David Ray Griffin had to say on the subject on the recent RINF Q & A thread:

''Probably even more destructive than actual disinformation agents has been the tendency of some members of the movement to label those who disagree with them as disinformation agents.''

[London Mick]

"We all know who the Shills are. It's painfully obvious sometimes and I'm not refering to Andrew or Tony.

We shouldn't give them the oxygen of a reply and just let their attempts to distract people with meaningless nonsense like the NPT fall off the bottom of the page. "

Uselesseater hit the nail on the head. I've just arrived here and I have spotted already those who should just be ignored. Don't feed them.

Slagging each other off doesn't help either. Nasty comments like "village idiot" are not needed here. We get enough flak from friends and family and the know nothings. We should be supporting each other here. After all, we're all a bit weird, let's face it! We're all outsiders. In our communities we are surrounded by dumbed down non-thinkers who are instructed to ridicule our views. We could do without that here.

[marky 54]

[thought criminal]

[Skeptic]

I think the only solution to this problem is to adopt a less personal style in posts.

Instead of 'I think' - 'It is likely that...because'.

and instead of 'you are wrong'.....'the assertion that <blah> doesn't hold because'....

it is the issues that are important, not the individuals - adopting a more academic style could help to remove personal disputes and focus on issues

[ian neal]

FYI

A meeting will be held this weekend to discuss the future web presence of both this forum and the campaign

Nothing is finalised and the details will be discussed at the meeting and then shared here for comment

I have been consulting with various people on these issues and I will be putting forward the following proposals

1) This forum is redesigned as an open space for discussion of the 'truth movement' in general and not solely 9/11. It will be unconnected to the campaign.

2) A separate 'private' forum is created for 'known' campaigners. A known campaigner is basically anyone who is vouched for by another known campaigner and who posts under their real name. The purpose of this forum would primarily be for campaigners to discuss campaigning and to build transparency, co-operation and trust within the movement. Those wishing to continue to debate the controversial theories and who is or isn't a shill will of course be free to do so on the open forum (although probably in a designated area reserved for such debate)

3) A small group would agree content for the campaign website and proposed newsletter. This group will be accountable to the committee and known campaigners will be able to propose and comment on this content via the private forum. The campaign aims to unite campaigners in a professional campaign, so it can be assumed that the campaign will NOT rely on any controversial theories (be they NPTs, thermite/thermate, TV fakery and the like).

Such an approach should not be interpretted as the campaign taking a position on these controversial theories one way or the other, but a recognition that these theories are divisive, unproven in the minds of many and in making the case for a reinvestigation of 9/11, unnecessary.

[Thermate]

[marky 54]

[Fallious]

[Myra99]

Post proofs that brotherhood is not so wild a dream as those who profit by postponing it pretend.
~~Norman Corwin


S O M E O F T H E A B O V E N E W S

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FROM: The Great Dollar Crash Of 2007

By Mike Whitney

The massive equity bubbles which arose from artificially low interest rates and the deliberate destruction of the dollar by reckless increases in the money supply have shifted trillions of dollars from working class Americans to the predatory aristocrats at the top of the economic food chain. The gulf between rich and poor has grown so wide that it now poses a direct threat to our increasingly fragile democracy.

"Whatever future developments may prove to be, my best guess is that the US will continue to maintain a façade of Constitutional government and drift along until financial bankruptcy overtakes it." Chalmers Johnson, "Empire V. Democracy: Why Nemesis is at our Door"
http://carolynbaker.org
http://www.ichblog.eu/content/view/405/2/

======================================================

Rabbi Michael Lerner & 9/11 Skepticism

A 9/11 Gov’t Conspiracy? ‘I Wouldn’t Be Surprised,’ Says Tikkun Editor

Daniel Treiman | Tue. Feb 06, 2007

Rabbi Michael Lerner, the longtime activist and editor of Tikkun magazine, has published an essay saying he is open to the possibility that the American government may have been behind the September 11 terrorist attacks. http://www.911blogger.com/node/6006

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9/11 SKEPTIC INCARCERATED FOR "evaluation."

FROM: Veterans for 9/11 Truth
Sunday, February 04, 2007

Alfons interviews Michael Cook: Michael Cook accused George Bush of being complicit in the 9/11 attacks, he is now being incarcerated for psychology evaluation by the federal government. Michael Cook.mp3 --- Read More -

This is a brief history of my legal problems. There are potentially lucrative lawsuits in the information presented here, and much more in information not presented here, for attorneys willing to take them on. I have no criminal record and a very respectable background.
In April of 2005, I shared information on the attacks of 9/11/01 with my teaching assistant. I was working as a special educator....

....For folks who are interested, please feel free to write letters to me at Club Fed. Reading and writing letters helps pass the time, but the more letters I get the more the feds will know that folks are watching this case, thereby making it more difficult to railroad me further.

Peace through Truth and Justice,

Mike

....Mailing address at the Federal Medical Center- (FMC- Free Mike Cook!)

Michael Cook
11288-032
FMC
P.O. Box 14500
Lexington, Ky. 40512-4500

http://freedomisforeverybody.blogspot.com/2007/02/fwd-re-back-to-jail. html

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Left Gatekeepers Against 9/11 Truth
MINDS HALF OPEN, OR HALF CLOSED?

The massive gates guarding the public secret of Neocon complicity in the atrocities of 9/11 creaked open a few inches this month when THE NATION magazine was forced to actually publish a few of the torrent of letters berating them for their complicity in helping to cover up the truth about those atrocities. (See below: "Is The Nation Going Sane?")

Now ALTERNET has seen fit to let discretion be the better part of their invalorous participation in the superbly disciplined conspiracy of deadly silence. Article and discussion:
AlterNet Revisits 9-11 via Article by Sander Hicks
http://www.911blogger.com/node/5932

WHAT NEXT? Are we witnessing the beginnings of a race to the top by the remaining progressive hold-outs against 9/11 truth? Will PROGRESSIVE MAGAZINE go progressive and start worrying less about watching their backs and their grants and their bank accounts, and more about printing the truth? Will Air America's Ed Schultz and The Young Turks grow up and stop covering up? Will that archeypical bully-boy Alexander Cockburn stop beating up on 9/11 truth in his CounterPunch?

Will Al Franken take finally to heart what he said (twice, on his February 2 show) is his most treasured advice from Molly Ivins: "DON'T EVER LET ANYONE TELL YOU JUST TELLING THE TRUTH IS NOT ENOUGH."

From Molly's lips to God's ears.

======================================================

Please Help Out Vermonters For A Real 9/11 Investigation

We Need YOUR Help!

A movement is quickly growing in the small – yet influential – northeastern city of Burlington, Vermont. We have collected enough signatures to place an advisory question on the ballot asking our congressional delegation "to demand a new, thorough, and truly independent forensic investigation that fully addresses the many questions surrounding the tragic events of September 11, 2001."

We need to educate our fellow voters about the many unanswered questions surrounding September 11th.We will be talking to as many people as we can, registering new voters and pushing on this issue for discussion. But we need YOUR HELP!...
http://www.911blogger.com/node/5875

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IS PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE KUCINICH
GOING FOR THE TRUTH ABOUT 9/11?

[From 911blogger http://www.911blogger.com/node/5850#comment ]

You may want to go to this site and view the video clip there, to see what got this anti-9/11Truth guy so upset.

Dennis Kucinich Calls For Some 9/11 Truth

~~~~~
WOW
Man, Kucinich is ON! The only question and I'm not sure if it's necessary is....Did that comment continue on or did it end there with "9/11" and he then go on to the next part of his plan...

Either way, Kucinich has proven himself to be a real lover of freedom. How about the dream team for this 08'

Kucinich/Ron Paul

To people who want to save this country!

~~~~~

Submitted by Orangutan. on Tue, 01/30/2007 - 1:01am.
I ran into Mr. Kucinich and his wife in Memphis
and told him that if he came out for new 9/11 investigations that the Truth movement would get behind him on his call for new investigations.

If this is in fact what he is doing, then we need to start backing his call for new investigations. My hope is that he will hold a press conference and call for new investigations, this may have been a trial balloon so I think we should email him and give this balloon all the lift we can.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

~~~~~

Submitted by LeftWright on Tue, 01/30/2007 - 2:01am.
Kucinich for 9/11 Truth!
Fast Fwd to about 3:59 at the front half of the video. It is very quick but he does say "we have a plan and our plan is to tell the truth about nine eleven". I'm not sure what else he could mean with a comment like that.

"Tell the truth about nine eleven" implies that we have been told lies about nine eleven. He doesn't merely call for a "new investigatgion," rather he calls for an end to the lies. He implies that we already know the truth, we just need to tell the truth. It really doesn't get any clearer than that.

This is pretty big coming from a sitting member of congress and a democratic presidential contender. As far as I'm concerned, Kucinich has my support!

http://kucinich.us/

http://www.911blogger.com/node/5850#comment

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IS THE NATION GOING SANE?

The Nation: Letters from readers on 9/11

I wonder if Bush's more and more evident insistence on all war all the time is making some people reevaluate their position on 911.
--Ronald
http://desip.igc.org

The Nation
This article can be found on the web at
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070205/letter

Letters
by OUR READERS

[from the February 5, 2007 issue]

9/11: THE JURY'S STILL OUT

"9/11: The Roots of Paranoia" by Christopher Hayes (Dec. 25) drew more mail than almost any Nation article in memory, except perhaps on the JFK assassination. Letters ran the gamut from the enraged (canceled subscriptions, charges of Nation stonewalling, anger at the use of the term "paranoia") to the complimentary ("My thanks to Mr. Hayes for trying to chart a middle road between credulity and paranoia"). But almost all agree that we don't know the whole story of what happened on September 11, 2001.

http://bleiersblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/nation-letters-from-readers-on -911.html

Chris Rose:
you hear that?
it's the sound of a huge, massive, disinfo ship changing direction. this is a good sign--we now know never to trust the Nation or any other pseudo alternative news source, but they still want to try to preserve some credibility. this is a great victory, let's keep the heat on these buggers!

Real Truther a.k.a. Verdadero Verdadero

http://www.911blogger.com/node/5761#comment

=======================================================

9/11 Completed Coup of 2000?

One point I made in the book is that 9/11 is not necessarily the most significant event of the twenty-first century because I believe that the 2000 presidential election was. I believe that it was unambiguously a coup d’etat, and that that coup was completed with the orchestration by the U.S. government of the 9/11 attacks. Thus, the two events are inextricably connected.

You know, on the night of the 2000 elections I was teaching at the university in Juarez, Mexico, and I was watching the election returns on TV in the faculty lounge, quite appalled at what I was witnessing. Then one of my colleagues, a friend and a Mexican national, playfully but seriously said to me, “It looks like you Gringos are living what we Mexicans have been living for decades -- dirty elections that have nothing to do with how the people actually voted.”

http://www.worldnewstrust.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&i d=840

==================================================

Google Blogs Alert for: 9/11 inside job

9/11 was an inside job says Shayler
EX-MI5 officer David Shayler, who will be in Liverpool to launch the Truth Movement, tells Paddy Shennan what he thinks about the New York terror attacks.
icLiverpool - News - Echo News - http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpoolecho/news/echonews/tm_meth od=full%26objectid=18513424%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

Senators Put Impeachment Back on The Table ~~
By tortugo23(tortugo23)
However, the evidence regarding 9/11 indicates that it was largely an inside job by traitorous elements of the US and global elite facilitated by bin Laden's band of delusional punks who had just the right amount of criminality to be ... Mexico New - http://riogrande-santafe.blogspot.com/index.html

==================================================

Minnesota Daily Launches Series of 9/11 Truth Columns

Adri Mehra will be doing a series of five 9/11 truth related columns for the Minnesota Daily, America's largest-circulation college newspaper. (Contact your local college paper and urge them to pick it up and publish it!) The first one was published today:

The Jenga hypothesis, or how I learned to start worrying - The Minnesota Daily

At 24 this guy is doing what the Woodwards and Hershes and Krugmans and all the other cowards masquerading as journalists apparently cannot bring themselves to do--confront the truth about the most important historical event of the century. If journalism has a future, this is it. (911blogger.com}

The Jenga hypothesis, or how I learned to start worrying
By Adri Mehra
This is the story of
one man's baptism
in the September 11
truth movement:
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2007/01/18/70347

==

DEAD ON ARRIVAL
The NIST 911 Report On The World Trade Center Collapse
By Mark H. Gaffney
http://rense.com/general74/nist.htm

==

Barrett: Academic freedom is good policy

By KEVIN BARRETT
(Barrett is a part-time lecturer at UW- Madison.)
Wisconsin State Journal

In the former Soviet Union, the monopoly media acted as cheerleader for a brutal, repressive government. Dissident academics were silenced, fired, or institutionalized.

For two or three years after 9/11, our media served as a megaphone for Bush administration lies, and academics were intimidated into silence....

....The excuse that my position is marginal no longer holds, given that only 16 percent of the American people believe the government is telling the truth about 9/11 (New York Times poll) and 36 percent of Americans, and half of New Yorkers, believe top US officials conspired to commit mass murder and high treason on 9/11 (Scripps-Howard and Zogby polls).

It is long past time for a rational, evidence-based debate on the facts and meaning of 9/11. Any takers?

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/column/other/index.php?ntid=108886&ntp id=5

===

Fewer people are believing the official reports on September 11 attacks:
http://www.sheboygan-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006611240473

==

ARE YOU A 16 PERCENTER?

There is help for you!

If you are among the 16% who still believe the Neonazicons' conspiracy theory about 9/11, YOU CAN BE HELPED! Simply click on the links below to read the scientific debunking of the Bush pseudoscience fairytale about the WTC 9/11 atrocity.

http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/kevin_ryan/newstandard.html

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html

http://www.wtc7.net/events/kc_science/index.html

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Editor: Myra M. Jackson

[Bushwacker]

[rodin]

[quote="thought criminal"]

[thought criminal]

[quote="rodin"]

[scar]

[Mark Gobell]

TC, not sure if you are aware but we have a thread going here for all NPT advocates to post evidence of NPT without arguments and bickering.

The idea being that the non NPT folk do the same.

Hope you can contribute.

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=6962