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Anthony Lawson
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 Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:16 am Post subject: British Taxpayers to Fund Holocaust education |
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British Taxpayers to Fund Holocaust Indoctrination
| Quote: | Gordon Brown this week announced a new government cash injection to help ensure British educators are prepared for teaching about the Shoah.
The announcement, which came towards the end of a wide-ranging address to Labour friends of Israel’s annual lunch, follows his £1.5m windfall in 2005 to help fund the Holocaust Educational Trust’s plan to send children and teachers from every school on visits to Auschwitz. |
http://www.totallyjewish.com/news/national/?content_id=6096
For ‘government cash’ read ‘money from British taxpayers’. This ill-disguised, Zionist-instigated propaganda is designed to deflect attention away from the on-going holocaust, which began shortly after the end of World War Two: the holocaust still being visited by the State of Israel on the Palestinian people. But, if you read the full article, you will note that there is no mention that the future British prime minister brought this up, during his speech.
But will the children who visit Auschwitz be allowed to ask any questions? If the Simon Wiesenthal Centre has anything to do with it, the answer to that would be a resounding: ‘No!’ And that is because no one, anywhere, is supposed to ask or answer any questions on that particular subject, and there will soon be European laws to enforce that. These laws, commonly referred to as ‘anti hate laws,’ will carry the threat of a three year prison sentence and are designed to prevent any open discourse or discussion on any matters likely to be at variance with the ‘official’ Jewish Holocaust story. However, thanks to the sensibilities of the Turks (or possibly the geographical situation of Turkey), the Armenian genocide will not be given Holocaust status. Or maybe that should read: ‘The Armenian holocaust will not be given genocidal status.’ It’s hard to come to terms with Euro-speak, sometimes.
In any event, not being able to ask question may upset a lot of maths students, because the original plaque at Auschwitz stated that "Four Million People Suffered and Died Here at the Hands of the Nazi Murderers Between the Years 1940 and 1945". However, that number has since been reduced to just over a million.
| Quote: | | In July 1990, the Polish government's Auschwitz State Museum, along with Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust center, conceded that the four million figure was a gross exaggeration, and references to it were accordingly removed from the Auschwitz monument. Israeli and Polish officials announced a tentative revised toll of 1.1 million Auschwitz dead.12 In 1993, French Holocaust researcher Jean-Claude Pressac, in a much-discussed book about Auschwitz, estimated that altogether about 775,000 died there during the war years. |
Source: What is Holocaust Denial? http://www.the7thfire.com:80/Politics%20and%20History/Holocaust/what_i s_Holocaust_denial.htm
Yet the emotive figure of Six Million, as the total number of Jews who died at the hands of the Nazis, persists, largely because the Anti Defamation League and other Jewish organizations, including Hollywood, feel that to reduce this figure would, somehow, posthumously diminish the suffering of those who died. Or could it be to bolster the living martyrdom of those who share the same religion, and to allow them to get away with doing much the same thing to others?
The calculations are as follows: If all of those who died at Auschwitz were Jews (which was, apparently, not the case), then, if the Auschwitz figure is revised downwards by 2.9 million, the total must also be revised downwards, by the same amount: 6 million minus 2.9 million equals 3.1 million.
The figures are tragic, anyway you look at them, so why is it so important to stick to the Six Million figure?
No sane historian would deny that a lot of unfortunate people, many of them Jews, suffered terrible hardships, including torture and rape, and were killed or died of disease in Nazi Germany, or in the concentration camps in Nazi occupied territory, before and during WWII, but to even question how many, or how and why they died has now become ‘defamation’; ‘denial’; ‘revisionism’, etc..
Normally, when disaster strikes, the fact that the death toll had been revised downwards, to just over a quarter of the number first published, would be cause, if not for celebration, then for a measure of relief. ‘Thank God that not so many of our brethren as we first thought suffered and died’ might have been spoken or at least thought by those with a religious background, but this does not seem to have happened; quite the reverse. Zionist organizations, including the ADL and Hollywood, stick to the Six Million figure, no matter what. In isolation, this is not such a terrible thing, but why should there be such an effort made to attack those who want to get at the truth about this, and other matters relating to the Holocaust, and, more generally, what led up to the deportations to the concentration camps in the first place? Could there have been other solutions to Hitler’s ‘Jewish Problem’? Solutions which were not acceptable to certain foreign Zionists, because it might have blocked the establishment of a Jewish state?
Whatever the answers, they will never become general knowledge, as long as the truth is being covered up in favour of the version which, apparently, allows the Israelis to ‘holocaust’ the Palestinians, which they started doing a long, long time ago, and which they continue to do, with apparent impunity, under the ridiculous proposition that the land they stole, and keep stealing had, long ago, been pledged to them by ‘God’.
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EmptyBee
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:45 am Post subject: Re: British Taxpayers to Fund Holocaust Indoctrination |
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| Anthony Lawson wrote: |
The calculations are as follows: If all of those who died at Auschwitz were Jews (which was, apparently, not the case), then, if the Auschwitz figure is revised downwards by 2.9 million, the total must also be revised downwards, by the same amount: 6 million minus 2.9 million equals 3.1 million.
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I thought the current estimate for the deaths at Auschwitz was 1.1 million including 1 million Jews (the rest being Roma, homosexuals, disabled people etc).
I gather the 6 million figure largely depends not on the documented number of Jews killed at specific camps but on the basis that there were approximately 10 million Jews before WWII and approximately 4 million after. Of course the number of people killed in WWII in Europe numbered approximately 50 million, 15 million soldiers, 35 million civilians of which 20 million were Soviet citizens and 4.5 million were Poles. Put in context the 6 million figure for the Jews doesn't seem so extraordinary, aside from the fact that the number represented 60% of the Jewish population, and you know, the fact that there was a systematic attempt to find a "final solution" to the "Jewish problem".
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Bongo
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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That's an interesting point EmptyBee, one I had not considered before.
I wonder how many Jews were killed in the manner of civilian deaths, ie. bombing raids etc?
In addition to this, if there were Jews killed in this manner in Europe (even by allied bombing of German cities), How many were there and were this number included in the 6 million dead?
I am afraid I am not informed enough to come to conclusions on this. However, I would say that I would not be surprised at the Jews massaging the numbers for political gain! (It is what politicians do after all, is it not?)
I do want to qualify my post by saying that I am under no doubt, the Nazis did indeed murder and gas many Jews. Hell, they raped and murdered many Russian women. It would be interesting to find out if more Russian civilians were murdered than Jews in the gas chambers... If that were the case, then it would shift the whole emphasis of (and I think there is a lot of this going on personally) "Playing up the 'Sympathy' card!", by the Jews.
Although again I have to qualify my question in that even one Jew murdered in the way it happened in the concentration camps or one Russian woman raped and killed by the Nazis is one too many.
I guess the concept of the concentration camps has the "Horrifying Factor"... a bit like the plane strikes and towers coming down on 9/11... or indeed as Bush stated the 'Shock and Awe' in the Bagdad invasion of Iraq.
Heck, sometimes you know you get a moment when you are typing away as I have just been above, start thinking about stuff like this and it all gets a little scary..... 'It just happened'!!!
I think I will go away and watch the footy now to calm myself down.
Cheers,
Bongo. |
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Stefan
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Bongo,
If by the footy you meant the FA Cup; I'd imagine it did more than calm you down and sent you to sleep, 15 minutes in the second half and the excellent goal aside it was one of the dullest matches I've ever seen.
I think EmptyBee makes an excellent point: there is ample evidence the holocaust happened, of course the numbers have been politically massaged as is the case with every single incident in history where the loser of a war's crimes are exaggertaed beyond belief. And EB also offers a very compelling proposal for how these figures were manipulated by a bending of facts.
This is quite normal and works in both directions. For instance the tally of soldiers "killed in action" the US keeps in Iraq only counts it a combat death if the solider dies where they were wounded, if they make it to hospital but die of their injuries there it goes into the "other" column of Iraq deaths, this way the US gives a ludicrous under-estimation of how many of theirs have been killed in combat.
But 6 million or 1.1 million - are we going to quibble over propaganda and claim that this was still not one of the most heinous and disgraceful crimes of ethnic cleansing modern times have ever seen, and that children should not be taught about it, or that as a species we should ever forget about it?
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kbo234
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Stefan wrote: | | .....and that children should not be taught about it, or that as a species we should ever forget about it? |
NO we shouldn't forget about it but it would be a good idea to really understand exactly how and why this and other holocausts happened.
The problem is that we are bombarded with 'holocaust' propaganda day-in-day-out. This one holocaust has been given too much significance. This particular propaganda has also been used to drive a global agenda, a wicked and unholy agenda that many of us dislike and distrust.
What about the much larger holocaust of Ukranians in the 1930's, killed, mostly through starvation and its attendant illnesses, by Stalin's Soviet machine. Why are there not 'holocaust museums' all over the world dedicated to our not forgetting this great crime?
I think we know why. |
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The problem is that we are bombarded with 'holocaust' propaganda day-in-day-out. |
We are? The amount of posts on this board suggesting it didn't happen is the most intensive coverage of the holocaust from any angle I've experienced in recent years. Personally, I'm not aware of being bombarded by the msm, but then maybe we read different papers or something.
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blackcat
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The amount of posts on this board suggesting it didn't happen is the most intensive coverage of the holocaust from any angle I've experienced in recent years |
Are you sure thay are saying that Dogsmilk? Seems to me they are saying it was exaggerated which is not the same thing, but is regarded as the same, because the official Holocaust account MUST be unchallenged. My view is that Jews were not killed in any disproportionate numbers to Catholics, Russians, Poles or any other group of people you care to mention. It is the way they have been made in to a special case, used to justify the Holocaust of the Palestinians which many find distasteful. Churchill and De Gaul wrote huge tomes about WW2 and neither mentioned a Nazi plot to systematically murder Jews. There is a great deal of evidence that many of the stories promulgated as fact do not stand up to examination. |
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Quote: | | The amount of posts on this board suggesting it didn't happen is the most intensive coverage of the holocaust from any angle I've experienced in recent years |
Are you sure thay are saying that Dogsmilk? Seems to me they are saying it was exaggerated which is not the same thing, but is regarded as the same, because the official Holocaust account MUST be unchallenged. My view is that Jews were not killed in any disproportionate numbers to Catholics, Russians, Poles or any other group of people you care to mention. It is the way they have been made in to a special case, used to justify the Holocaust of the Palestinians which many find distasteful. Churchill and De Gaul wrote huge tomes about WW2 and neither mentioned a Nazi plot to systematically murder Jews. There is a great deal of evidence that many of the stories promulgated as fact do not stand up to examination. |
Well, I suppose I meant there have been a lot of posts saying gas chambers didn't exist (or suggesting they probably didn't) & stuff like that - the exact position, of course, depends on the individual. The point was meant to be illustrative to compare the frequent 'challenging' positions here with an observation it's not a subject that I've perceived to be high on the media agenda - i.e. people keen to 'challenge the OT' go on about it more than the media does. Frankly, I see the media talking a damn site more about 911 and that being used way more overtly as a political tool right now. Just where is all this "day-in-day-out" Holocaust coverage?
I'm not sure if you're right about the disproportionate bit - for example an awful lot of Russians died, more than Jews, but not as a proportion of their total population.
I've never read Churchill or DeGaulle. Did they write about the systematic extermination of the disabled? Or what happened to gay people? gypsies? If they didn't focus on stuff like that either, I suspect it had more to do with where their own priorities lay. Churchill, for one, was not exactly what you'd call a human rights activist.
I do, however, have sympathy with the 'special case' bit. It happened. It was awful. Anti-Semitism is bang out of order. But what Israel does now is not justified by and should not be obfuscated by past events, any more than Peter Tatchell should be excused a marching into a shopping centre and letting rip with an AK47 because of how the Nazis treated gays.
Using a past massacre for political ends is a poor way to commemorate victims to put it mildly.
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kbo234
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | | Personally, I'm not aware of being bombarded by the msm, but then maybe we read different papers or something. |
It is not so much the newspapers, although the Holocaust still gets plenty of mentions in the press....it is more that some TV channel or other always seems to be covering this subject, or if not the holocaust directly then other WWII history (Pictures of marching Nazis does stimulate, you surely cannot disagree agree, heighted awareness and emphasis of 'the holocaust'). Why is there so much of this stuff in our faces still?
I don't think it is exaggeration (but maybe I am watching out for these references) but scanning channels and other media there are some weeks when literally a day doesn't go by with one being reminded of these issues by the media. (mind you, maybe I spend more time than is usual doing this....because it is hard to find anything on the cable channels that one wants to watch). |
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agent orange
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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My son came home from school the other day and sat and told me how their class had a visit from an 80 year old woman who lived through the concentration camps and told them the horrors of what when on.
He said that Everybody in that class sat and listened and nobody not even the biggest show off failed to be moved by her story.
i could tell he was genuinely moved by what he was told. One of the things that moved him most was when a woman had her baby taken from her by a German soldier who then turned and threw it with full force against the wall.
It really brought it home to him to realise just how vile humans can be.
He told me that after the talk Everybody left the class in silence all genuinely moved.
I Think it was good for these children to have had this talk and it was good that this woman gave up her time and to take the effort to explain just what humans are capable of doing to one another.
It certainly left him thinking and realising that what you see on the tv or in the movies does not necessarily reflect true life.
The fact is does it matter if it was six million , one million, ten thousand, or even just one, as far as im concerned as long as people wake up to the horrific thing humans are prepared to do to one another for what ever reason then the greater chance we have of one day living in peace together side by side.
unfortunately we are a long way away from that point but education is the key. |
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| kbo234 wrote: | | Dogsmilk wrote: | | Personally, I'm not aware of being bombarded by the msm, but then maybe we read different papers or something. |
It is not so much the newspapers, although the Holocaust still gets plenty of mentions in the press....it is more that some TV channel or other always seems to be covering this subject, or if not the holocaust directly then other WWII history (Pictures of marching Nazis does stimulate, you surely cannot disagree agree, heighted awareness and emphasis of 'the holocaust'). Why is there so much of this stuff in our faces still?
I don't think it is exaggeration (but maybe I am watching out for these references) but scanning channels and other media there are some weeks when literally a day doesn't go by with one being reminded of these issues by the media. (mind you, maybe I spend more time than is usual doing this....because it is hard to find anything on the cable channels that one wants to watch). |
I only get channels 1-4, so I can see how our experience may be different - for me, cable and satellite is some far off realm I only encounter for brief periods at other people's houses. When it goes digital, I'm thinking of binning telly altogether and going the DVDS and online route.
It's funny really - reading your post made me think of how just seeing Nazis marching about doesn't make me think of the Holocaust (makes me think of America more) - I was thinking about how I grew up with all those old war films like a bridge too far, the battle of the bulge and the guns of navarone - that 'big battles of WWII' meme was always more deeply implanted in my mind. At school, in the playground, it was always Brits fighting Germans (if you were a German you constantly shouted achtung! in response to anything), but never Germans hunting Jews. I read comics like battle which were full of stories about WWII but never mentioned Jews.
I haven't seen any of these films for ages, but I don't seem to recall mentions of Jews or persecution and the films made about that topic being few and far between (I dimly recall seeing one about the Warsaw ghetto years ago and maybe one or two others). I was thinking - I can think of all kinds of reasons why this is the case (big battles with tanks and stuff make better Hollywood and kickin Nazi ass is way more likely to get good box office than people dying in camps for a for a start) - but if I were a hardcore ADL minded kinda guy, I could probably formulate an argument about how the western film industry has historically sought to deliberately omit what (in their opinion) is the single most important topic of the war if not the twentieth century. This would be seen as the influence of deep-seated anti-semitism permeating Europe and America which seeks to avoid this topic as a way of denying the reality of the pervasive underlying hatred of Jews. So I'm kind of wondering if, to a greater or lesser extent, if it depends on how you see it.
Reading Agent Orange's post is interesting - I was in the GCSE pilot year (and what a shambles that was!) and somehow went through the whole of school without the subject ever being taught at all. I grew up only dimly aware it was part of WWII at all. Why it should be a bad thing it's firmly in the curriculum, even being given what is (when you look at government spending) a paltry amount of funding escapes me.
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Disco_Destroyer
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Genocide should be looked at fairly, not one sided, if it is to be taught we should look at other circumstances in which this occurs including the blood of our own Government or forefathers 
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agent orange
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Disco_Destroyer wrote: | | Genocide should be looked at fairly, not one sided, if it is to be taught we should look at other circumstances in which this occurs including the blood of our own Government or forefathers |
I absolutely agree. |
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blackcat
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | My son came home from school the other day and sat and told me how their class had a visit from an 80 year old woman who lived through the concentration camps and told them the horrors of what when on.
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Will your child be getting a visit from a Palestine mother with a similar story of what Palestinians are going through TODAY - not 60 years ago. Your story is an example of what we have been saying about how the Jewish Holocaust is constantly being given priority. Why not a Pol Pot story or a Rwandan story - after all they were far more recent Holocausts? Why not a visit from a survivor of the massacre of 5 million Poles by the Nazis or 20 million Russians. It is this persistent focus on the Jews which is suspicious! A British child should be no more concerned with the suffering of a Jew than any of the others I mention but the others hardly ever get a mention. |
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Disco_Destroyer wrote: | | including the blood of our own Government or forefathers |
That's an excellent point - but that's one road I can't see the national curriculum going down. You don't keep power by teaching the little kiddies what a bunch of c*nts you are. Where's your sense of national pride, man!
Blackcat - I'd like to see school visits from Palestinians too. Hell, how about a few Afghans or Iraqis? Doesn't detract from that visit, though.
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blackcat
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Doesn't detract from that visit, though. |
It does if there is an agenda! It seems that there is an agenda by virtue of the fact that we rarely hear of others but constantly hear about the Jewish Holocaust. It is glaring! |
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agent orange
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| blackcat wrote: | | Will your child be getting a visit from a Palestine mother with a similar story of what Palestinians are going through TODAY - not 60 years ago. Your story is an example of what we have been saying about how the Jewish Holocaust is constantly being given priority. Why not a Pol Pot story or a Rwandan story - after all they were far more recent Holocausts? Why not a visit from a survivor of the massacre of 5 million Poles by the Nazis or 20 million Russians. It is this persistent focus on the Jews which is suspicious! A British child should be no more concerned with the suffering of a Jew than any of the others I mention but the others hardly ever get a mention. |
The fact that the woman was a jew did not come into it with my son. As i said what shook him most was realising just how inhumane people can be! for what ever reason they are driven. he is quite aware of the horrors that are going on at the present time in this world as i am not afraid to tell him what this world is turning into. But this woman HAD been through one of the dark crimes of humanity and she was stood in front of him in real life telling what happened. As i said earlier All crimes against humanity should be taught but at least this was a start |
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Disco_Destroyer
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogsmilk wrote: | | Disco_Destroyer wrote: | | including the blood of our own Government or forefathers |
That's an excellent point - but that's one road I can't see the national curriculum going down. You don't keep power by teaching the little kiddies what a bunch of c*nts you are. Where's your sense of national pride, man!
Blackcat - I'd like to see school visits from Palestinians too. Hell, how about a few Afghans or Iraqis? Doesn't detract from that visit, though. |
National Pride left me as soon as I realised the horrors that had been going on in my name and finally to find out that I may be a target to advance our rulers (Government/Bankers/Royalty/Corporate Leaders) goals. By that I mean going about my normal business only to become the next falseflag victim of somepersons choosing.
If you still feel patriotic after all that then your eyes must be full of soot or something 
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Dogsmilk
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Disco_Destroyer wrote: | | Dogsmilk wrote: | | Disco_Destroyer wrote: | | including the blood of our own Government or forefathers |
That's an excellent point - but that's one road I can't see the national curriculum going down. You don't keep power by teaching the little kiddies what a bunch of c*nts you are. Where's your sense of national pride, man!
Blackcat - I'd like to see school visits from Palestinians too. Hell, how about a few Afghans or Iraqis? Doesn't detract from that visit, though. |
National Pride left me as soon as I realised the horrors that had been going on in my name and finally to find out that I may be a target to advance our rulers (Government/Bankers/Royalty/Corporate Leaders) goals. By that I mean going about my normal business only to become the next falseflag victim of somepersons choosing.
If you still feel patriotic after all that then your eyes must be full of soot or something |
You mean you don't get a tear in your eye as you see the trooping of the colour? You don't doff your cap to the gents if you pass through the City? You don't stand and salute for the queen's speech? Shame on you!
| Quote: | | It does if there is an agenda! It seems that there is an agenda by virtue of the fact that we rarely hear of others but constantly hear about the Jewish Holocaust. It is glaring! |
Why does it detract from an individual's experience of horror? Did she have an agenda? It's hardly like there's some plot to ram the holocaust down everyone's throat from the year dot. If you think there's some plot to back zionism, then you can sleep easy in your bed - it's not working - I work with young people and have spent a fair amount of time in schools - the vast majority don't give a hoot. They're too busy being willingly indoctrinated into the wonders of consumer culture. AO's son got a snapshot of the horrors that really go down from someone who'd been there - that can only be a valuable educational experience. If you look at the curriculum from key stage three, it's quite a mixed bag. It's been years since I've been at school, but we did the Russian Revolution then and all the killing that went down then (mind you, they taught us some lies too). Seeing Vietnam on there, I'd wager they don't frame that as the unprovoked invasion it was neither (not to mention the mass killing of civilians, chemical warfare etc), but there you go.
| Quote: | Examples for 13: a world study after 1900
Individuals:Winston Churchill; Adolf Hitler; Joseph Stalin; Benito Mussolini; Franklin Roosevelt; Mahatma Gandhi; Mao Zedong; Martin Luther King.
Events:the Western Front in the First World War; the Russian Revolution; the Depression and the New Deal in the USA; the rise of National Socialism in Germany; the emergence of Japan as a major world power; the partition of Ireland and its impact; the rise of modern China; the Vietnam War; the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Developments:the changing role and status of women; the extension of the franchise in Britain and the work of reformers such as Christabel and Emmeline Pankhurst; the Welfare State; the origins and role of the United Nations, including the UN Charter and Universal Declaration of Human Rights; the break up of the overseas empires of European countries; the origins and development of the Commonwealth and its impact; the development of the European Union; the impact on the lives of people in different parts of the world of changes in the arts, communications, science and technology, such as the work of Marie Curie, Albert Einstein, and of James Watson, Francis Crick, Rosalind Franklin and Maurice Wilkins on the structure of DNA. |
http://www.nc.uk.net/webdav/harmonise?Page/@id=6001&Session/@id=D_c1lX ntu1UqJyJEXGwbRv&POS[@stateId_eq_main]/@id=3301&POS[@stateId_eq_note]/ @id=8656
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Bongo
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The fact that the woman was a jew did not come into it with my son. As i said what shook him most was realising just how inhumane people can be! |
How can you be sure of that? He was no doubt told that she was Jewish.
I think that there are a lot of interesting points on this thread, one being that of the Palestinian issue. I think the teacher should get a Palastinian in to explain how the western governments aided and abetted the Jews to steal most of Palastine after WW2 and do the same horrors to the Palestinians that happened to the Jews in the concentration camps.
There is always more than one side to a story  |
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Anthony Lawson
Validated Poster
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 370
Location: Phuket, Thailand
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: Can Dogsmilk Actually Read? |
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Can Dogsmilk Actually Read?
Dogsmilk:
| Quote: | | The amount of posts on this board suggesting it didn't happen is the most intensive coverage of the holocaust from any angle I've experienced in recent years. (emphasis added) |
That is exactly the way in which organizations such as the ADL and the Simon Wiesenthal Institute operate. Any questioning about the Holocaust immediately becomes a ‘denial’ that it happened, and the questioner becomes a ‘denier’. And that’s what the middle word in ‘Anti Defamation League’ is all about. To question anything about the Holocaust becomes defamation. Don’t ask me how that works, because I really don’t know.
So, why did you write what you did, Dogsmilk? You could not have been referring to my opening post on the subject, could you? If you were, then you obviously can’t read properly.
Anthony Lawson wrote—8th Paragraph, above:
| Quote: | | No sane historian would deny that a lot of unfortunate people, many of them Jews, suffered terrible hardships, including torture and rape, and were killed or died of disease in Nazi Germany, or in the concentration camps in Nazi occupied territory, before and during WWII, but to even question how many, or how and why they died has now become ‘defamation’; ‘denial’; ‘revisionism’, etc.. |
And your later, half-hearted retraction…
| Quote: | | Well, I suppose I meant there have been a lot of posts saying gas chambers didn't exist (or suggesting they probably didn't) & stuff like that - the exact position, of course, depends on the individual. The point was meant to be illustrative… |
…was followed by some of your typical ramblings. If you are going to illustrate a point, please try to make sure that you have made an accurate point to start with.
Obviously, what is called the Holocaust did happen, but I would like to know more about why it happened, and why it is a Zionist-imposed taboo to talk or write about any of the details. Many respected historians feel the same way, because there is a lot of evidence which suggests that it did not happen as per the ‘official’ story. Just as most of the contributors to this website believe that the crimes of 9/11 were not perpetrated by 19 Arabs, with box cutters, acting alone. (Which does not imply that I believe that any Arabs were involved, in case Dogsmilk wants to make a dog’s breakfast of that statement.)
Anyone really interested in getting past what could be called ‘The NIST Report on the Holocaust’ should take a look at some material which the ADL and other Zionist organizations are desperate to suppress. A good place to start is…
Institute for Historical Review: http://www.ihr.org/main/search.shtml
…or just type ‘Holocaust Denial’ in your web browser’s search box, and you’ll find a whole load of places to go. Google delivers 741,000. Whereas for 'Holocaust Questions' Google only lists 1,730 sites. Get the picture?
Here are some extracts from an article by Mark Weber, titled The Holocaust: Let's Hear Both Sides (the source of the material is in brackets, after each excerpt:
| Quote: | No serious historian now supports the once supposedly proven story of "extermination camps" in the territory of the old German Reich. Even famed "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal has acknowledged that "there were no extermination camps on German soil."
(Books and Bookmen, London, April 1975, p. 5, and in Stars and Stripes (Europe), Jan. 24, 1993, p. 14.)
We now also know that the postwar "confession" of Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höss, which is a crucial part of the Holocaust extermination story, is a false statement that was obtained by torture.
(Ruper [sic] Butler, Legions of Death (England: 1983), pp. 235-237, and R. Faurisson, Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1986-87, pp. 389-403)
At the end of the Second World War, the Allies confiscated a tremendous quantity of German documents dealing with Germany's wartime Jewish policy, which was sometimes officially referred to as the "final solution." But not a single German document has ever been found which even refers to an extermination program. To the contrary, the documents clearly show that the German "final solution" policy was one of emigration and deportation, not extermination. (emphasis added)
(Nuremberg document NG-2586-J. NMT green series, Vol. 13, pp. 243-249)
And on July 24, 1942, Hitler emphasized his determination to remove all Jews from Europe after the war: "The Jews are interested in Europe for economic reasons, but Europe must reject them, if only out of self-interest, because the Jews are racially tougher. After this war is over, I will rigorously hold to the view ... that the Jews will have to leave and emigrate to Madagascar or some other Jewish national state."
(H. Picker, Hitlers Tischgesprche im Fuehrerhaupt quartier (Stuttgart: 1976), p. 456.)
Jews were an important part of Germany's wartime labor force, and it was in Germany's interest to keep them alive.
The head of the SS camp administration office sent a directive dated Dec. 28, 1942, to every concentration camp, including Auschwitz. It sharply criticized the high death rate of inmates due to disease, and ordered that "camp physicians must use all means at their disposal to significantly reduce the death rate in the various camps." Furthermore, it ordered: "The camp doctors must supervise more often than in the past the nutrition of the prisoners and, in cooperation with the administration, submit improvement recommendations to the camp commandants ... The camp doctors are to see to it that the working conditions at the various labor places are improved as much as possible."
Finally, the directive stressed that "The Reichsfhrer SS [Himmler] has ordered that the death rate absolutely must be reduced."
(Nuremberg document PS-2171, Annex 2; NC and A red series, Vol. 4, pp. 833-834.
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It is also known that the Bush family were hand in glove with at least one important Nazi, before and after the war, but the ADL wants to cover that up, even to the extent of ‘denying’ the historical research of the Director of the Florida Holocaust Museum, if you please. (see my post at: Is History Repeating Itself? http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=71960#71960
I started this topic to alert the forum to the fact that British taxpayers will be paying for propaganda which has been instigated by Zionists. It is propaganda because it is part of an organized programme to disseminate selective information. If the stigma of propaganda is to be removed from such a programme, visits to schools by Jewish Holocaust survivors would have to be balanced by Palestinian survivors of Israeli Atrocities (even the capitalization should be balanced). And what about some subsidized school visits to Jerusalem and Gaza—with suitable armoured transportation provided, of course—and with Palestinian, rather than Zionist guides?
Furthermore, the results of the research and the opinions of those who dispute the Zionist version of history must be heard, in schools and in open debate, not crushed and suppressed by those who have—very obviously—something to hide.
Trying to find out the truth about what has happened and what is happening has nothing to do with defaming anyone—whether they be dead or alive—it is the right of every human being to be able to seek the truth, unhindered by censorship, and for those who care about the future of their children, it is their duty.
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The truth won't set you free, but identifying the liars could help make the world a better place. |
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Can Dogsmilk Actually Read? |
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| Anthony Lawson wrote: | Can Dogsmilk Actually Read?
Dogsmilk:
| Quote: | | The amount of posts on this board suggesting it didn't happen is the most intensive coverage of the holocaust from any angle I've experienced in recent years. (emphasis added) |
That is exactly the way in which organizations such as the ADL and the Simon Wiesenthal Institute operate. Any questioning about the Holocaust immediately becomes a ‘denial’ that it happened, and the questioner becomes a ‘denier’. And that’s what the middle word in ‘Anti Defamation League’ is all about. To question anything about the Holocaust becomes defamation. Don’t ask me how that works, because I really don’t know.
So, why did you write what you did, Dogsmilk? You could not have been referring to my opening post on the subject, could you? If you were, then you obviously can’t read properly.
Anthony Lawson wrote—8th Paragraph, above:
| Quote: | | No sane historian would deny that a lot of unfortunate people, many of them Jews, suffered terrible hardships, including torture and rape, and were killed or died of disease in Nazi Germany, or in the concentration camps in Nazi occupied territory, before and during WWII, but to even question how many, or how and why they died has now become ‘defamation’; ‘denial’; ‘revisionism’, etc.. |
And your later, half-hearted retraction…
| Quote: | | Well, I suppose I meant there have been a lot of posts saying gas chambers didn't exist (or suggesting they probably didn't) & stuff like that - the exact position, of course, depends on the individual. The point was meant to be illustrative… |
…was followed by some of your typical ramblings. If you are going to illustrate a point, please try to make sure that you have made an accurate point to start with.
Obviously, what is called the Holocaust did happen, but I would like to know more about why it happened, and why it is a Zionist-imposed taboo to talk or write about any of the details. Many respected historians feel the same way, because there is a lot of evidence which suggests that it did not happen as per the ‘official’ story. Just as most of the contributors to this website believe that the crimes of 9/11 were not perpetrated by 19 Arabs, with box cutters, acting alone. (Which does not imply that I believe that any Arabs were involved, in case Dogsmilk wants to make a dog’s breakfast of that statement.)
Anyone really interested in getting past what could be called ‘The NIST Report on the Holocaust’ should take a look at some material which the ADL and other Zionist organizations are desperate to suppress. A good place to start is…
Institute for Historical Review: http://www.ihr.org/main/search.shtml
…or just type ‘Holocaust Denial’ in your web browser’s search box, and you’ll find a whole load of places to go. Google delivers 741,000. Whereas for 'Holocaust Questions' Google only lists 1,730 sites. Get the picture?
Here are some extracts from an article by Mark Weber, titled The Holocaust: Let's Hear Both Sides (the source of the material is in brackets, after each excerpt:
| Quote: | No serious historian now supports the once supposedly proven story of "extermination camps" in the territory of the old German Reich. Even famed "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal has acknowledged that "there were no extermination camps on German soil."
(Books and Bookmen, London, April 1975, p. 5, and in Stars and Stripes (Europe), Jan. 24, 1993, p. 14.)
We now also know that the postwar "confession" of Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höss, which is a crucial part of the Holocaust extermination story, is a false statement that was obtained by torture.
(Ruper [sic] Butler, Legions of Death (England: 1983), pp. 235-237, and R. Faurisson, Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1986-87, pp. 389-403)
At the end of the Second World War, the Allies confiscated a tremendous quantity of German documents dealing with Germany's wartime Jewish policy, which was sometimes officially referred to as the "final solution." But not a single German document has ever been found which even refers to an extermination program. To the contrary, the documents clearly show that the German "final solution" policy was one of emigration and deportation, not extermination. (emphasis added)
(Nuremberg document NG-2586-J. NMT green series, Vol. 13, pp. 243-249)
And on July 24, 1942, Hitler emphasized his determination to remove all Jews from Europe after the war: "The Jews are interested in Europe for economic reasons, but Europe must reject them, if only out of self-interest, because the Jews are racially tougher. After this war is over, I will rigorously hold to the view ... that the Jews will have to leave and emigrate to Madagascar or some other Jewish national state."
(H. Picker, Hitlers Tischgesprche im Fuehrerhaupt quartier (Stuttgart: 1976), p. 456.)
Jews were an important part of Germany's wartime labor force, and it was in Germany's interest to keep them alive.
The head of the SS camp administration office sent a directive dated Dec. 28, 1942, to every concentration camp, including Auschwitz. It sharply criticized the high death rate of inmates due to disease, and ordered that "camp physicians must use all means at their disposal to significantly reduce the death rate in the various camps." Furthermore, it ordered: "The camp doctors must supervise more often than in the past the nutrition of the prisoners and, in cooperation with the administration, submit improvement recommendations to the camp commandants ... The camp doctors are to see to it that the working conditions at the various labor places are improved as much as possible."
Finally, the directive stressed that "The Reichsfhrer SS [Himmler] has ordered that the death rate absolutely must be reduced."
(Nuremberg document PS-2171, Annex 2; NC and A red series, Vol. 4, pp. 833-834.
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It is also known that the Bush family were hand in glove with at least one important Nazi, before and after the war, but the ADL wants to cover that up, even to the extent of ‘denying’ the historical research of the Director of the Florida Holocaust Museum, if you please. (see my post at: Is History Repeating Itself? http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?p=71960#71960
I started this topic to alert the forum to the fact that British taxpayers will be paying for propaganda which has been instigated by Zionists. It is propaganda because it is part of an organized programme to disseminate selective information. If the stigma of propaganda is to be removed from such a programme, visits to schools by Jewish Holocaust survivors would have to be balanced by Palestinian survivors of Israeli Atrocities (even the capitalization should be balanced). And what about some subsidized school visits to Jerusalem and Gaza—with suitable armoured transportation provided, of course—and with Palestinian, rather than Zionist guides?
Furthermore, the results of the research and the opinions of those who dispute the Zionist version of history must be heard, in schools and in open debate, not crushed and suppressed by those who have—very obviously—something to hide.
Trying to find out the truth about what has happened and what is happening has nothing to do with defaming anyone—whether they be dead or alive—it is the right of every human being to be able to seek the truth, unhindered by censorship, and for those who care about the future of their children, it is their duty. |
Before you go getting all excited and throwing your toys out of your pram, you might want to consider what you're saying a little.
Firstly, as far as I'm concerned (as I clarified), saying there were no gas chambers is, as a central plank of the general holocaust narrative, basically saying it didn't happen - the holocaust is generally regarded as being about the deliberate, systematic slaughter of Jews as opposed to grim camps where people died. I didn't decide that - many people who think the camps were bad, people died etc but there were no gas chambers refer to the 'holohoax' - so I'm sure you'll find chums in Max Weber's fanbase that use similar terminology. Whether you agree with that definition is neither here nor there - I made myself clear about what I meant. If you don't like the fact I associate it 'not happening' with dismissing the notion of gas chambers, then fine. If you think that view around gas chambers doesn't have a sizeable presence on this forum, I suggest you do a bt of a search of the word holocaust. Funnily enough, I didn't use the word 'denial' in any of my posts, but there you go. I also made clear that I was using the point to illustrate my perception the holocaust isn't all over the media (compared with here). I wasn't making a point about holocaust 'denial' at all. I guess you missed that bit - strange as you quoted it, but you appear to confuse the concepts of clarification and retraction.
In fact, you then go reading all sorts of things into nothing by having some big rant about the ADL. Quite what the relevance all this has I'm not sure, other than you wetting yourself about people apparently stifling debate. Good for you. I've said explicitly on this forum several times that, much as I dispute their position, I do not agree with stopping people from 'challenging', 'revising' or 'denying' the holocaust at all. If you weren't sure - you need only have asked. You have fun with the IHR if you like. I would simply advise you scrutinise their politics with the same rigour you would with the Zionists.
You talk about 'propaganda instigated by zionists being paid for by taxpayers. Perhaps you need to be more clear as to exactly what that means. Do you mean propaganda in terms of the actual content or propaganda in terms of the subject itself being a focus? If the latter, do you have evidence that 'Zionists' were specifically responsible for its place in the national curriculum? And do you think the sums of money involved are significant in terms of national education budgets? Selective information? Get real - all history taught in schools is selective. Not saying I approve of that, just curious why this particular subject gets you all excited. Loads of history I was taught in school was * and we never even did the holocaust. You seem to think Brown making nice news for himself in a Jewish publication is some kind of earth-shattering news. I'm sorry, but I don't. And I already said I think Palestinian visitors would be a good idea, in this very thread. How about a trip to Aceh, too, to see what the Indonesians are up to? Or the Congo? Afghanistan? Somalia? Iraq?
If you mean propaganda in terms of the content, you seem to be somehow suggesting the history is creation of Zionists -
You refer to the 'Zionist version of history' - on what do you base that? Can you evidence that those who wrote the generally accepted version of history are Zionists? Raul Hilberg really got the ball rolling on holocaust history and he's a vocal supporter of Norman Finkelstein...an outspoken critic of Israel and Zionism. Is Christopher Browning a Zionist? I realise you may feel privy to some great insight on the political views of academic historians, but personally I've get to see any convincing breakdown showing they're all 'Zionists'. They may use it though -
there is a distinct and important difference between what history we believe and what that history is used for politically. It is not a difficult distinction to grasp.
And the ADL may be desperate to suppress some of your fave reading matter, as are some politicians, but as I have pointed out on innumerable occasions on this forum, many historians do not. If you think there's some big plot to suppress some big bombshell, IMO you're barking up the wrong tree.
From me observing that this 'no gas chambers' stuff is popular on this forum, you go jumping to all kinds of zany conclusions. And then confirm it by quoting Max Weber or over the place for no apparent reason - I have read much of his stuff you know.
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EmptyBee
Moderate Poster
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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So just what is your position on the holocaust Andrew? That there was a systematic effort to 'get rid of' the Jews by 'deportation to the East', but that somewhere along the line, several million of them just happened to end up dead, in the process?
It's well documented where most of the camps were - they were mostly in Poland. It's extremely disingenuous to point to the lack of concentration camps on German soil as of any significance. Indeed if you look at the generally accepted statistics for WWII casualties, it appears that of the Jews estimated to have been killed in the holocaust 4 out of the 6 million were Eastern Europeans - 3 million Polish Jews and 1 million Russian Jews.
It occurs to me that had the Axis won WWII the "conspiracy theory" would be that there ever was a holocaust. "Oh the Jews? They went away."
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"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." |
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Snowygrouch
Validated Poster
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 628
Location: Oxford
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Wow,
Another irellavent thread on a topic frequently used to totally discredit us as being Nazi sympathisers "day in day out".
I can`t remember the last time I was "indocrinated" about the holocaust.
I think this topic has no place on this particular forum and I remain to be convinced on what level this helps expose 9/11.
But whatever, at least nobody mentioned lizards....
C
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Dogsmilk
Mighty Poster
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | nother irellavent thread on a topic frequently used to totally discredit us as being Nazi sympathisers "day in day out".
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Yes, well, the last time I made that incredibly obvious observation I got accused of being King Censor of Censoramia and playing into the hands of the wicked scheme to 'suppress the truth' by the Zionists who apparently run everything up to and including the national curriculum.
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Dogsmilk
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 1616
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Y'know - I was just thinking -
maybe I should take a bit of a look at this Mark Weber stuff again - I haven't for a while.
Maybe Anthony is on to something here.
The IHR purports to have a broad remit - sure the overwhelming majority of their 'articles' concern themselves with 'challenging' the holocaust, but hey! I like history and there might be a few odds;n' ends.
Like here - Mark Weber - Anthony's favoured 'historian' reviewing "Hitler as 'enlightenment intellectual': The Enduring Allure of Hitlerism"
Sounds intriguing. Mark concludes -
| Quote: | Birken concludes his book with a fervent call for "the gradual formation of an American race as a higher synthesis. Then the Americans will truly constitute a universal or 'cosmic' people." In Birken's view, the "race myth" and Hitlerism "will continue to tempt us" unless Americans "can be given a genuine metaphysical foundation." This "metaphysical foundation" must be to "uncreate race" through massive racial mixing. Therefore, Birken writes, "we should not be afraid of that dirty little word, 'miscegenation'." (Consistent with this vision, President Bill Clinton, in his much-discussed June 14, 1997, speech in San Diego on race relations, openly proclaimed the goal of making America "the world's first truly multiracial democracy.")
Given the reluctance of many Americans, particularly conservative Whites, to warmly embrace this new "universal" nation, Birken says "we must have an education system that is able to instill this redefinition of American culture."
"Before we try uniting the world," Birken concludes, "let us try uniting ourselves. Until we do so, the siren song of Hitlerism will call to us."
Stark Alternatives
To anyone who views the past with an open mind, history demonstrates the utterly fantastic nature of the goal laid out by Prof. Birken (and President Clinton) -- a vision no less utopian than Marxian Communism. In any case, to meld the American population into a "universal" racial-cultural entity would require government repression on a scale unimaginable today.
Few Americans today are able or willing to fully grasp the enormous implications of the radical program that intellectuals such as Birken (and political leaders such as Clinton) are spelling out for our future. But once they do (and as Prof. Birken fears) many will likely turn to Hitlerism as an alternative to the official prevailing ideology. The decades-long campaign of vilification of Hitler and Third Reich Germany may actually contribute to this by convincing millions of Americans that Hitlerism is the antithesis of the Establishment's ideology, and thus the only real alternative.
In spite of its defects, Hitler as Philosophe effectively dispels some widely-held misconceptions about Hitler and Hitlerism, acknowledges the critical importance of the race issue, and boldly spells out stark alternatives for the future of America and Europe. For this the author deserves credit. |
- yeah, so we need to ditch this 'utopian' race-mixing malarky. If you read the language carefully, you can see where ol' Max's heart lies. Quite why people of different races breeding entails 'government repression' I don't quite get.
So we're off to a good start with good ol' Max here. What's next?
Another review maybe? Here's one for "Conspiracy and Betrayal Around Hitler"
- It looks at the dastardly deed of trying to off der fuhrer before he could make any more bonkers decisions - the cads! reviewer H.Keith Thompson stirringly notes -
| Quote: | Privately, very privately, many Germans express contentment that Remer's voice is heard on the German scene. Because anti-Nazi fantasizing in the media is so prevalent and continues so intensely and unrelentingly, even Germans who, from personal experience, should know better, occasionally find themselves caught up in these horror fantasies, reacting as the media manipulators intend. Audiences are being mythologized and trained to approach the Third Reich the same way they see Dracula, Frankenstein, or space monster films, the same way they listen to the tormented ravings of the gypsy Azucena in Verdi's Il Trovatore, whose mother went up in flames and who threw her own baby into those fires. Obsessively she recounts and relives the flaming agony.
It is no wonder that Jews whose families haven't been in Europe for generations, and even non-Jews, have been so "holocausted," so hyped by relentless media onslaughts, that they are instantly ready to characterize the Third Reich as a horror story, a thing of "demonic forces" or "moral decay," supremely, uniquely evil. Remer has the courage to ask loudly, very loudly:
What demons? What decay? What are you talking about? The moral values and attitudes we learned at home and in the Hitler Youth, the spirit that prevailed in Nazi Germany, was anything but "decadent," or "demonic" or in any way "evil" [Remer is here paraphrased, not quoted directly].
General Remer reminds many Germans of what they know to be true -- that the Third Reich was a time of moral and physical renewal, of high standards in public morality, of discipline and integrity, of striving for ancient ideals and new forms in which to embody them. |
Yes - there's all this holocaust propaganda - when, of course, we should be remembering the glory of the Reich. I'm starting to get it.
Leon Degrelle, in his marvellous "The Enigma of Hitler"
| Quote: | The mountains of Hitler books based on blind hatred and ignorance do little to describe or explain the most powerful man the world has ever seen. How, I ponder, do these thousands of disparate portraits of Hitler in any way resemble the man I knew? The Hitler seated beside me, standing up, talking, listening. It has become impossible to explain to people fed fantastic tales for decades that what they have read or heard on television just does not correspond to the truth.
People have come to accept fiction, repeated a thousand times over, as reality. Yet they have never seen Hitler, never spoken to him, never heard a word from his mouth. The very name of Hitler immediately conjures up a grimacing devil, the fount of all of one's negative emotions. Like Pavlov's bell, the mention of Hitler is meant to dispense with substance and reality. In time, however, history will demand more than these summary judgments.
Hitler is always present before my eyes: as a man of peace in 1936, as a man of war in 1944. It is not possible to have been a personal witness to the life of such an extraordinary man without being marked by it forever. Not a day goes by but Hitler rises again in my memory, not as a man long dead, but as a real being who paces his office floor, seats himself in his chair, pokes the burning logs in the fireplace. |
Sheer bloody poetry.
And a look at books in brief gives you a fascinating insight into some possible reading -
| Quote: | Hitler's World View: A Blueprint for Power by Eberhard Jaeckel. Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1981. 140pp. $6.95 pb. Current edition of the influential 1972 work which overthrew the venerable myth that Hitler never held any real philosophical convictions -- was just an opportunist interested only in power for its own sake. Shows via careful examination of Hitler's words and actions that, whatever one might think of it, the Führer did hold and hold to a consistent and internally-logical world view in which he believed deeply.
Hitler's Secret Book by Adolf Hitler. Introduction by Telford Taylor. New York: Grove Press, 1983. 230pp. $7.95 pb. Most recent edition of the semi sequel to Mein Kampf, dealing mainly with concrete questions of long-term foreign policy, which Hitler wrote in 1928 but never allowed to be published. This translation was originally published in 1961.
Hitler's "Mein Kampf" in Britain and America: A Publishing History 1930-39 by James J. Barnes and Patience P. Barnes. New York: Cambridge University Press, 1980. 101pp. $19.95. An investigation into the labyrinthian saga of Hitler's famous book as it was presented to English-speaking audiences in the 1930s. Deals with the various translation and publication efforts from the abridged British 1933 version (My Battle) through pirated productions (including a tabloid "anti-Hitler version") to the well-known James Murphy, New School for Social Research, and Ralph Manheim translations.
Hitler in Vienna 1907-1913: Clues to the Future by J. Sydney Jones. 350pp. $19.95. Careful study of Hitler's youth, based on some sources not exploited by previous researchers. It is as much a general biography of Viennese cultural and intellectual life during this time as of its stated subject; captures well the milieu surrounding Hitler during his formative years.
The Memoirs of Bridget Hitler edited by Michael Unger. London: Duckworth, 1979.192pp. $9.95. First publication of the largely-spurious memoirs of the English wife of Hitler's half-brother, Alois. The memoirs reposed for many years in the New York Public Library as a typescript ("My Brother-in-Law Adolf"), and describe a mythical 1913 visit by young Hitler to England.
Ein Andere Hitler: Erlebnisse, Gespraeche, Reflexionen (A Different Hitler: Experiences, Conversations, Reflections) by Hermann Giesler. Leoni am Starnberger See: Druffel Verlag, 1977. 527pp. DM 46.00. The memoirs of Hitler's "other architect," responsible for some of the great public building projects planned for the New Reich. Avoids the guilt- ridden apologetics, responsibility-shiftings, and recriminations characteristic of Albert Speer's memoirs; frankly pro-Hitler.
Hitler's Personal Security by Peter Hoffman. Cambridge: MIT Press, 1979. 321pp. $15.00. Meticulous study of the means and methods used to protect the life of the Führer, his residences/offices, and entourage, from the time of his entry into political prominence to the last days. Based in large part on the files of the agencies responsible for security. Many maps, photos, diagrams.
Hitler's Secret Life: The Mysteries of the Eagles Nest by Glenn B. Infield. New York: Stein and Day, 1981. 317pp. $2.95 pb. Sensationalistic, unreliable account by a contemporary master-chronicler of Third Reich gossip. Much use made of patently spurious sources, including material from the "archives" of Nuremberg trial judge Michael Mussmano -- the author's predecessor in producing "history" of this sort.
The Medical Casebook of Adolf Hitler by Leonard L. Heston and Renate Heston. Introduction by Albert Speer. New York: Stein and Day/Scarborough, 1982. 184pp. $9.95 pb. Careful, detailed reconstruction of the state of Hitler's health over the years, approached in terms of Hitler as just another patient for whose patient-history all available evidence is gathered and evaluated. Little extraneous discussion: the authors stick to their subject -- the result being probably the definitive study.
The Secret Diaries of Hitler's Doctor by David Irving. New York: Macmillan, 1983. 310pp. $16.95. The notes made by Hitler's chief attendant physician, Dr. Theo Morell, transcribed and translated by David Irving, who provides a lengthy introduction and extensive commentary throughout. This book has renewed discussion over Morell's unorthodox treatments and their effect on Hitler's performance as statesman and warlord. |
All the books on Hitler a man could possibly want! They sure do like this Hitler guy at the IHR! (I've not quoted all the Hitler books btw)
The overwhelming majority of the archive is concerned with the holocaust apparently not happening and why Nazi Germany was such a swingin' place to be. I haven't linked to any pages as the mods have previously said they don't like links to dodgy nazi websites - they're easily found in the IHR archive. The IHR are clever though - they don't fall into the trap of getting carried away. I couldn't find my all-time fave 'revisionist' essay which is "Was Hitler really a dictator?"
Now, I'm all for hearin' the other side - everyone has their own truth. But I wonder...when it comes to notions of big Zionist propaganda plots, is there just a teensy-weensy outside chance the IHR might just conceivably be...a bit biased?
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karlos
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| EmptyBee wrote: | | Indeed if you look at the generally accepted statistics for WWII casualties, it appears that of the Jews estimated to have been killed in the holocaust 4 out of the 6 million were Eastern Europeans - 3 million Polish Jews and 1 million Russian Jews. |
this is exactly the kind of indoctrination the poster was refering to
please feel free to look up ACTUAL census data pre World War II
you will learn that the maths does not add up
Even Jewish Rabbinal leaders who are learned scolars dispute the official holocaust story. You should listen to what actual jewish scolars say about the subject and you will see we have all been brainwashed. Nobody denies that a holocaust did not take place but the 6,000,000 stuff is pure fantasy. Are you aware of the 250,000 polish babies which were siezed and taken to germany to be brought up as germans? Are you aware of the romany gypsies who were massacred? Are you aware of thousands of communists being tortured and hanged? Why dont these holocaust victims appear in history books.
Did you know that Hitler was financed by rich american business leaders including George Bush's grandad Prescott Bush and JP Morgan and the Rockefellers, Ford, IBM? Are you also aware that many of the bankers who financed Hitler were themselves Jewish.
I bet they dont teach that on the nation curriculem
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karlos
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Anthony Lawson
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:15 am Post subject: The Last Post |
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The Last Post
Well now, Stelios is obviously someone else who has done some reading, and has appeared just I was about to pack up my keyboard and tiptoe out of the forum. Unfortunately, I am unable to access the videos, because the Thai government is still blocking U-Tube. Never mind, you make your points very clearly, in the text.
The name is Anthony, EmptyBee, and my position on the Holocaust is that I would like to be able to read and listen to a variety of opinions about that period of history, particularly from historians and other interested parties who are able to back up their dissenting arguments with what appears to be valid documentation. One of the main reasons for this is that my suspicions are always aroused when I get the distinct feeling that there are those who want to prevent me from accessing certain information. So the question naturally arises: What have they got to hide? And that makes me curious.
The fact that one of the documents I quoted related only to German concentration camps was to illustrated that, up until about 1975—that is 30 years after the end of WWII—the once supposedly proven story of "extermination camps" in the territory of the old German Reich was admitted to be without substance, even by Simon Wiesenthal. So if that was conceded, could there not be other discrepancies? I also said that the website I gave was a good place to start looking at what other people had written, and I gave a few examples. Whether or not anyone wants to pursue this suggestion is their choice, of course, but criticising others without doing even a minimal amount of research can be a counter productive.
The most infamous concentration camp was in Poland: Auschwitz, and further reading has made me doubt that there were extermination gas ovens there, although there were huge numbers of deaths due to disease, and, I am sure, brutal executions were regular events. What seems to be accurate is that Zyklon-B was certainly used; to delouse clothing. Typhus is one of several diseases caused by louse-borne bacteria, and it was rife in the concentration camps, and in much of Europe, during WWII.
Anyone really interested in learning more about this should search for material by, or about Germar Rudolf, once a scientist at the renowned Max Planck Institute, who dared to analyse the paint in an alleged gas chamber at Auschwitz, and found no evidence of sufficient residue of the amount of Zyklon-B which would have been necessary to kill the number of people who were said to have been killed, by gassing. In your search, should you choose to undertake one, you may also find evidence that the ‘gas chamber’ shown to visitors was built after the war, by the Russians. This fact was admitted by a former custodian of the Auschwitz Museum.
Not only did Germar Rudolf lose his job and had to flee Germany, because he dared to question the established story, but on March 15, the Mannheim District Court sentenced Germar Rudolf to two years and six months in prison for inciting hatred, disparaging the dead, and libel. This is, I think, the same court which sentenced another researcher, Ernst Zundell, to a five year prison term, following a trial where the judge forbade his defence council to even quote from the sources necessary to prove that what Zundell alleged may well have been true. The judge refused to hear certain witnesses, and even threatened to put Zundell’s lawyer in jail, for repeating what her client had told her he believed to be true. Zundell’s troubles started in Canada, in the ‘90s, when he was hounded down and tried for the same ‘crimes,’ then illegally extradited to Germany.
Robert Faurisson, a French historian who has been charged and fined heavy sums, in France, for his research and publications, has recently had a lecture forcibly cancelled, at a university in central Italy, his sponsor saying something like “Why cancel the lecture? Why can’t they (the dissenters) come and question Professor Faurisson about his views.” But to no avail. Even an informal gathering at a restaurant had to be abandoned.
British historian David Irving was also tried and sent to prison, in Austria, for ‘Holocaust Denial’, which will soon be a European Union crime, with a three year prison sentence if one is found guilty. Certain people call Irving a Nazi sympathiser, although I have yet to find any evidence for this, but I’m still looking. (His entire history output is now available, free, to download. I am currently reading ‘Hitler’s War’. Gosh, I wonder is it okay to do this?)
Why, I ask again—if ‘official’ accounts are historically accurate—is it necessary to gag people who seem to be able to produce documentary evidence that indicates that at least some of the ‘facts’ do not add up?
Why is properly-documented historical research not being met with reasoned dissent, where those who believe that their facts are the right ones, are prepared to put them up against the facts of others in a genuine effort to find out where the truth lies? Instead, anyone who holds contrary views, or who is interested in finding out more about the era, is immediately called a Nazi sympathiser, as has just happened to me.
I am not a Nazi sympathiser, and using the slur is unwarranted, although it does point up the fact that Zionist propaganda does work. However, I will continue to maintain that expressing reasonable doubts about the ‘official’ history of a period which shaped the second half of the twentieth century—the repercussions of which are far from over—does not make me, or this forum inclined towards sympathy for the Nazis or any other extremist group. Quite the reverse, as I abhor the extremism of Israel, and those who call the Palestinians extremists, when it is their land which was stolen by the Zionists, and the theft continues while the rest of the world is exhorted to feel sorry for what the Jews suffered.
I feel sympathy for everyone who suffered, during WWII, and that includes some members of my own family and their friends, at the hands of the Japanese—building the Burma railway was no picnic, as my step father could have told you, were he alive today—but it doesn’t give me the right to push over someone else’s house with a bulldozer, or plough up their orange groves, or wall them into their villages, or put them into refugee camps and then massacre them with American-funded weaponry, while I build an American-funded house on their stolen land. And please don’t quibble about where the money comes from. Israel could not exist without U.S. funding. Look it up.
Read Robert Fisk’s harrowing book: The Great War For Civilization — The Conquest Of The Middle East, and Web of Deceit by Mark Curtis, then get back to me about how unimportant you think it is to get historical facts straight.
As I see it, and I am far from being alone, the Zionist’s purpose for keeping the Jewish Holocaust at the forefront of people’s minds is to dull them to the ongoing Palestinian Holocaust, for which they are responsible, and it seems to be succeeding.
If you want your taxes to support that, then so be it. But don’t be surprised what else they might be used for, in the not-so-distant future.
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karlos
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:49 am Post subject: |
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there is one truth history forgets
Dr. Hecht, an economist from Haifa, testified during the Kastner trial:
"In 1939, we illegally transported as many Jews as possible from the German border via Switzerland. The Swiss government at that time did not wish to flood Switzerland with refugees, and Sali Mayer fully agreed with this policy. All of the steps that were taken against Jewish refugees —— their imprisonment and the curfew imposed on them not to leave at night — — were carried out with the full concurrence of Sali Mayer. The officials of the Jewish Agency in Switzerland did not do a thing to oppose these decrees against foreigners by the Swiss. I knew Sali Mayer, and I could confirm that the mayor of Zurich, Dr. Brunner, helped us more than he did."
the above is one of many examples of zionist collaberation during the war
| Rav Weissmandel 1942 wrote: | | But which sin is harsher: giving money to enemy countries, or murdering tens of thousands of our Jewish brethren? |
writing to Sali Mayer and Nathan Schwalb (representative of the Jewish Agency) who were not moved by the piercing cry. Three million dollars could have saved a million Jews. But at that time of emergency, these nationalists (zionists)—— who had the influence and the money —— refused to give it to the highest purpose for which the money had been raised: redeeming those doomed to die.
| Quote: | | the avoidance and the blocking of rescue opportunities by the Zionist leader, Sali Mayer, who, in his position as representative of the Joint, and also as chairman of the Zionist Communal Board in Switzerland, had in his hand (together with the Jewish Agency representatives in Switzerland) great authority and control over the monetary sources of world Jewry. It has been pointed out that Sali Mayer was loyal to the approach of the Zionist leadership which was, essentially: Since we are united in this war with the Allied powers, we are obligated to identify our activities with their interests, even when it will cost us the lives of hundreds of thousands of Jews. |
why dont we see this on the bbc?
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Last edited by karlos on Tue May 22, 2007 3:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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