15 Years To Peak Oil Being Publicly Accepted...

[lockerbie]

"I wonder who has the patents to that?"

i would imagine whoever invented it unless he sold the patent. and since all patents are freely available you could try and find it if it ever existed and check whether or not it does what it claims.


"Yes. Who do you think might hae the means and motive to buy it?"

pretty much anyone has the motive to buy what would the scientific discovery of the millennium.

"yer, I know."

and you have any reason to doubt thermodynamics and so the underpinning theory of modern physics?

[Bongo]

Yep James, Sorry my arithmetic contained an error... I must have been tired. But allit proves is that we are even more in the deep doo doo than even I thought.

Just another point here... everyone, try and see if you can find a number of items in your house that say "Made In China"... I bet you all find quite a few (more than you probably would expect), this shows that we in the west are just as much to blame as the Chineese for the increase in consumption.

We sell them the oil, they make the goods and sell them back to us.

It truely is a global problem with global collapse the big worry.

[blackcat]

[karlos]

free energy exists today
wind, wave, tidal, hydroelectric, solar, lightning,
no big deals
no great leaps of faith


By the way do any of you remember gyroscopes?
when i was a kid they were made of metal and could spin for ages defying gravity

do you remember a magnet in a circular tube?
a Magnet placed a plastic tube with magnets stuck to the outside will move round and round the tube on it's own unaided and unpowered. Simply by opposite poles repelling each other.

[Bongo]

Stelios,

[karlos]

I agree with you that councils are the worst to convince to go with clean energy. I was blocked from starting a clean energy business by Ken Livingstone's GLA.

But the technology is there right now. It also proves to me that pollution control is all propaganda, when it comes down to implementation councils and companies do not practice green. Supermarkets fly food in from Israel causing pollution. Politicians fly worldwide to meetings when a phone call or an email will generally do. Personally i have never set foot on a Plane.

Let me give you an obvious example. In my chilhood. Glass bottles were re used. They had a 5p tarrif and you always took your bottles back to the shop. Milk also came in bottles. Newspaper was re used as chip wrapper or insulation or fire kindling.
Refuse was incinerated to make electricity and the ash can make fertiliser.
ETC
More recently glass was taken to bottle banks and paper was collected by private businesses for recycling.

But then the politicians jumped in and screwed everything up.
Now no refuse is used to meke electricity instead it goes into landfills. Councils force people to put rotting food waste, paper and plastic into a recycling container. God only knows what the logic is in sending 2 dustcarts instead of one. And the worker has to seperate the paper/plastc/metal/organic waste by hand. Costing more money, using more energy and time and achieving much less than before.
The reason they do it is to make people suffer and tax them more. The traditional system was so much more efficient. Nothing got wasted. The council sent me a compost bucket very kindly. But ofcourse charged me. Yes you fill it with vegetable waste for a few weeks. But when it becomes dangerous to even go near it because of the swarm of 1 million flies that live in and around the composter, you realise that you could actually get ill.

In Britain we had windmills and waterwheels centuries ago. We had a fuel efficient canal system for moving freight. Today we can have free energy anywhere anytime.

Geothermal was another free energy source that i did not mention before.

The Bush family Bin Ladin family Rockafeller family controlled western economies do not want free energy. They want oil and gas. Which is why they block, prevent, buy up, even imprison anyone who threatens to break the mould.

[lockerbie]

"The Universe is teeming with "free" energy, from the movement of sub atomic particles to the motion of the planets and stars. I heard that the sun once shined as well."

by free energy i meant the modern equivalent of perpetual motion machines. more energy out than you put in.

"We accept that the Earth revolves around the sun, overturning centuries of belief that it was the other way round. What was catastrophic about it?"

nothing much because it was the underpinning for every other subsequent theory.

and cold fusion is still a very controversial subject in the scientific world and needs to be seriously looked at again, but the 1989 was not at all conclusive.

[blackcat]

[ian neal]

[lockerbie]

"Slightly off the topic of peak oil but in reference to the science are you aware of how much we still don't understand especially at the quantum level?"

yes it is a a bit of a mystery but we do at least understand conservation of energy, one of it's underpinnings.

there is this fanciful idea that the rules about conservation of energy and thermodynamics could somehow be done away with, they can't. they are a fundamental piece of science it would be the equivalent of trying to ignore newton's work. it ain't gonna happen. it has been proved and re-proved with every piece of work that came after it, from einstein to the atomic bomb to hawking.

it is equally likely we will disprove gravity. it's not only fundamental to our understanding and essential to the rest of science but it has to be correct otherwise nothing else works.

"There are huge gaps in science. It has lost 95% of the matter and energy in the universe."

care to explain this statement?

"In reference garden shed inventors, are you aware of how many scientific breakthroughs resulted from boffins beavering away in isolation ridiculed by the scientific establishment at the time? "

like?

[ian neal]

[lockerbie]

oh you meant dark mater. well we never really "lost mass or energy" we just made a few mistakes when we tried to weigh the universe. the silly mistake of thinking we could see everything out there. you live and learn.

and stuff like the grand unified theory will bring together all the world's of physics yet they will need to work to the already established laws. if someone comes out with "my theory works if i ignore important stuff like thermodynamics" then it doesn't work.

"Before I go and find examples of this are you saying this is not the case?"

i couldn't think of any names off the top of my head. except for einstein's cosmological constant.

[blackcat]

[blackcat]

James Watt and the Invention of the Steam Engine
Robert Fulton and the Invention of the Steamboat
George Stephenson & Invention of the Locomotive
Michael Faraday Invention of the Electric Engine
Elias Howe & the Invention of the Sewing Machine
Henry Bessemer and the Making of Steel
John Gutenberg and the Invention of Printing
Samuel F. B Morse & the Invention of the Telegraph
Alexander Graham Bell & Invention of the Telephone
Thomas A. Edison - lots
Orville and Wilbur Wright Powered Flight
Guglielmo Marconi - Radio

[lockerbie]

not that old chestnut again. just a shame that the scientific community rejected it as totally baseless. with good reason.

[lockerbie]

none of those blackcat were ridiculed at the time.

[blackcat]

Yes they were.

[blackcat]

[lockerbie]

no blackcat they weren't ridiculed james watt was rich beyond his wildest dreams, edison was not only extremely rich he was extremely famous,

robert fulton didn't invent the steamship at all he just made a commercial one, again to great success.

again with stephenson.

not only was faraday rich and famous he got a free house from the royal family. he rejected his knighthood.

the only ridicule elias howe got was when he had to defend his patent against singer, he won and claimed vast royalties.

bessemer was a millionaire though he did face battles for his patents.

i take it you meant johannes gutenbeg and yes he didn't have a great success but was recognized and given some award (i can't remember it's name)

and while morse encountered great skepticism and later had severe problems with his patent. but he had a statue made of him while he was still alive and died quite rich though his invention was worth far more than he was given.

bell, wright and marconi were all celebrities of their day.

what part of that seems like ridicule?

"Care to post any proof of your assertion that the scientific "community" rejected it? Seems like a lot of written and historical proof that he was a plagiarist does exist."

we know it's been written off because that is the accepted view, everything he published is still referred to as his work.

[blackcat]

[lockerbie]

and why would no-one challenge einstein about his work and let him take credit unhindered? and if they did why weren't they listened to.

the official story of 9-11 has motive what motive is there for letting einstein take credit for that work?

[blackcat]

[lockerbie]

"which is why his work is challenged. "

clearly not successfully.

"What do you think happened on 9/11?"

i've already talked to one of the moderators about my views. they are also aware of my beliefs and connections.

[blackcat]

[lockerbie]

"You really are smug in your ignorance aren't you? Take a look - don't be a Sun reader and just take a look!"

oh i;ve taken a look, and i read quite a few of the journals as well. the accepted history is that einstein did his own work.

"How very cryptic! I wonder why you don't just answer the question. It isn't difficult - you just say what you think. I think 9/11 was an inside job. Do you?"

it was intended to be so. not because i refuse to answer as john white will tell you, it's becasue i refuse answer to you.

[blackcat]

Yet you have no problem answering/responding to so many other things. Hmmmmm. Nice distortion of language to use "answer TO me" as opposed to answering a simple question. I do not know of anyone who would not state his position clearly, including the "critics", and when someone like you wriggles as you have done there is only one reason. I will save you the bother of "not answering to me", by ignoring you in future, like I do with all the sewer dwellers.

[ian neal]

Lockerbie was asked

[lockerbie]

ian can you not just ask john white for my answer as i've already given it to him and it seems a waste of time if i'm going to have to answer the same question constantly. john has already asked and i've already given my answer.

the reason for my avoidance? because balckcat seems like a jumped up little corporal.

[flamesong]

Peak Oil, wasn't it?

Actually, I think that the Peak Oil debate itself is the the only controversy here. Whether or not we can expect Peak Oil in five years or five hundred years - US oil companies were eager to get their no bid contracts in Iraq along with the usual ancillary suspects, Haliburton and Bechtel.

But it will happen eventually. It takes hundreds of million years for fossil fuels to form from the decay of the remains of flora and fauna - mainly prehistoric forests. The oil (and coal) which lay undisturbed for all this time is then converted into petrol and its byproducts in very little time at all. It doesn't take a mathematicial to work out that if you fill a bath with an eye-dropper and then pull the plug the bath will empty.

To environmentalists, oil exemplifies man's folly. Not only in the way that mankind squanders its resources like a pay day sailor but in the way that products once built to last from biodegradable materials are now disposable and made from material which will take as long to break down as the oil first took to form.

So, as far as I'm concerned, the debate is as relevant as whether or not the captain of the Titanic saw the iceberg in the fog before the ship hit it.

However, it might be interesting to listen to tonight's Friday Play on Radio 4:

Friday 13 July 2007 21:00
A Second to Midnight, part 1 of 2
Oil company geologist Dr Rob Turner has written a report saying that oil reserves are about to run out. But then he is forced to bury it. Then the worst possible news comes from Nigeria.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/arts/friday_play.shtml

[Bongo]