EU referendum... not. Evidence of a fascist state in GB

[Pikey]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7280588.stm

Is this another wake up call?

[fish5133]

Yes Pikey, this is a smack in the face for Democracy. I believe this is far more serious than we think from both a religous angle and the political one . Some christian churches of various flavours have for many years been putting out their particular understanding of biblical end times prophecy and one of the common themes between them is that of a United States of Europe (A new Holy European Empire)
The Right Honourable Viscount Tonypandy of Rhondda in the forward to a book by Adrian Hilton "The Principality and Power of Europe" said in 1997

[Louise]

I for one am fuming over the result of the vote not to hold a referendum on the EU .

Arn't the MP's supposed to represent the views of their constituants?.

Last time i heard about 90% of the british population want a referendum on europe.

And that's not even counting the fact that the british people were promised a referendum by the labour party, then they went back on it.

This shows us that the british people and their opinion dosen't mean a thing to them and they just don't care.

They've sold out Britain to the EU, disgusting i think.

I think we need to chuck out most of the politicians in westminster and install in office a whole new party, one that will ask the people for their views and abide by it.

My own personal opinion is that we should have just stuck to trading with them (the common market) nothing more.

[911Eyewitness]

Over the weekend I watched the BBC Parliament and saw Brown speak about how the British people wanted that Global Europe and that globalisim is the goal to be achieved. No one opposed his statement and they instead cheered him. Does anyone understand that globalisim is the new world order from the commercial side?

I have to carry that stupid American mantel for the accident of birth and have watched how a distant federal government undermines states and peoples rights. You are all in this growing disease and yes it is a sort of "gradualism". They will carry on because they have disarmed their subjects and fattened them from their teats. No one stands and the few that may be willing are subject to becoming branded terrorists and loosing all rights because society will follow the will of those who own the means of production.

Watching the old European states fold themselves into a distant government with no elected officials, seeing the rulers educate the subjects in mandatory schooling to accept queen and destiny is hairy to say the least. The new "treaty" actually says that the EU grants the rights of states to suggest modifications to any laws. Imagine that? The EU believes it can grant rights to state parliaments! Things they can grant are things it can take away. There will soon be no place to live where their declaratory subjugations do not reach.

[Rory Winter]

As there is so much anti-European slagging that goes on by a dedicated bunch of Europhobes on this site, I thought it a good idea to let readers see a little of the other Europe which they would otherwise not hear much about.

So I'm publishing, in its entirety, the text made by the European Left and called the Athens Declaration, 2005. From this, readers will see that there is a healthy socialist and libertarian movement within a European Union which is not all about New World Order multinationalism.

That last is primarily attributable to the work of the Trilateral Commission which, since its inception in 1973, has been working ceaselessy in the interests of what is now called the New World Order. A good, seminal book to read about the Trilats is the one that was published in the 'eighties by Holly Sklar, The Trilatersal Commission and Elite Planning for World Management. It should still be available through Amazon.

I would encourage those readers who agree with the call of the European Left to lend it solidarity, instead of following the destructive path of the Europhobes. European citizens must take their destiny into their own hands.

The European Left's Athens Declaration follows:

Athens Declaration

We, the European Left, gathered in Athens on the 29th and 30th of October, 2005, acknowledge that the crisis currently afflicting Europe has no borders, and that the neo-liberal policies decided upon in Brussels and by the national governments are to blame for it. These choices have been made over a period of many years, and the result is in front of our eyes, now.

We also acknowledge that the peoples of Europe, who have suffered most from these policies, are fighting against them and looking for alternatives. Europe needs to be re-established on a foundation of peace, democracy and full respect for social and human rights. This is our commitment and our hope: European citizens must take their destiny into their own hands.

This action and declaration of solidarity is likewise an appeal for unity addressed to all movements and left political forces that are striving to reverse priorities and to change the policies that have been implemented up to the present.

The European Left and its member parties are committed to fight together with social movements, trade unions, and political left forces for another Europe, which is possible. In this context, we fully support all European mobilisations and initiatives against neo-liberalism and war, particularly the Fourth European Social Forum to be held in Athens.

We are committed to eradicating the tragedy of unemployment and job insecurity. We are committed to fight against social exclusion, to support employment programmes, to work for the creation of new jobs, for the reduction of working hours, and the conversion of insecure and part-time work into steady, decently paid jobs. Therefore the European Left will develop its own set of proposals. We support all policies that fight and strive to stop job cuts and we also condemn fraudulent bankruptcies and relocations. We believe it is essential to preserve and rebuild social welfare systems (including public pensions) and to take life-long learning as a priority. We demand a new model of production, distribution and consumption. We fight for the immediate withdrawal of the Bolkestein Directive and the GATS (General Agreement on Trade and Services)

The deregulation of employment in Europe and the social dumping in the developing countries are two sides of the same coin. Both give benefits exclusively to the multinationals, increasing competition among the working people and affecting women in particular. A specific programme must be drawn up to establish a new relationship between productive and reproductive work, equal wages to overcome the sexual division of labour.

Instead of relocation, we propose that working hours and conditions be improved, that production be subject to environmental considerations, and that welfare and wage systems be empowered. Greater transparency, improved democracy and more worker’s power in the workplace are fundamental demands. It is by defending rights, not abolishing them, that we can achieve a more just world.

We insist on an urgent reorientation of EU budget and monetary policies.

The European Central Bank should be democratically controlled and placed at the service of employment and of development, which should be free of the demands of the financial markets, with particular attention to the less developed EU regions. We demand an end to the stability pact, in favour of social policies at European level.

We promote the strengthening of public services at local, regional, national and European levels.

We are against privatisations and the neo-liberal directives that promote the commercialisation of public resources and services such as water, energy, culture, education and health care. Basic services must not be regulated by profit, but by the quality levels demanded by the population. We oppose migration policies oriented to police action and the so-called fight against terrorism

The recent Lampedusa, Amsterdam and Melilla events, the situation of hundreds of so-called boat people in Italy and Greece and the deplorable conditions in the migrant detention centres reveal the inhuman cruelty and bankruptcy of Fortress Europe. A new policy must be formulated and implemented, based on respect for human dignity and equal labour rights that are an essential part of the labour movement in Europe, which will legalise all migrants and demand strategic support for development. We stand for a world without war and demand a European Peace policy against the military logic of the superpowers’ warfare

We fight for the development of European cooperation and solidarity to promote peace.

Europe does not need an aggressive alliance - one that disrupts and challenges the role of the UN - to secure peace and to establish peaceful relations with all countries of the world. We call on the people of Europe to demand that their countries withdraw from the NATO military structure, and that all NATO and US military bases be abolished. NATO, in its present form, is unacceptable and the demand for its abolition is absolutely essential.

Disarmament must become the primary issue in a Europe based on peace. The European Left demands a reduction of national military expenditure. Europe must be a continent free from weapons of mass destruction. All European armies must withdraw from Iraq immediately. The peace movement cannot slow down its actions. We are fully committed to its objectives, namely the mobilisation of public opinion in solidarity with the Palestinian people and the Israeli pacifist forces. There will be no peace in the region without a political solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, based on UN resolutions. This must be the European priority, within the framework of the quartet responsible for the "road map", as well as the destruction of the wall and the immediate withdrawal of foreign troops from the occupied territories.

We oppose the authoritarian offensive against civil liberties, social, labour and democratic rights.

The extraordinary legislation being approved by governments is an offensive against individual and collective rights that were the product of long democratic struggles. We will fight to stop this dangerous trend, for no security can be built that opposes freedom and democracy. Yes, we can change Europe!

We, the European Left, are fully committed to this challenge.

Our perspective is peaceful, socialist, ecological and radically democratic.

Our perspective is also a feminist one, for gender equality and democracy in all domains of life are far from being real.

Our perspective recognises diversity in individual life options.

Our perspective is internationalist, opens Europe to the world and promotes cultural exchanges, cooperation and new solidarity.

Our perspective considers the Mediterranean a region fundamental to world peace.

Change is a necessity. There is a profound gap between citizens and political elites. The victory of the "No" forces against the Constitutional Treaty expresses the degree of this split. The majority of the population is not against Europe. The majority voted against the liberal and arrogant policies that have brought the crisis into our daily lives. Today, the treaty is politically dead. This fact is the basis for an expanded debate on the present, so that the future of Europe can look forward to a new prosperity. We will participate in a broad citizens’ movement that will work for a manifesto or a charter of the social and political rights appropriate to the Europe we want. Yes, we can change Europe!

The European Left, http://www.european-left.org/

[Leiff]

The EU is unreformable.

How many of the above aspirations have been achieved by the European Left since 2005?

[911Eyewitness]

[Rory Winter]

Well, you seem to have the powers of divine all-knowingness which enables you to pontificate in this manner!

Instead of sitting around griping and supporting the xenophobes who object to all things European because they are "un-British" -an imperialist, racist attitude that the slaves learnt from their masters- we, on the European Left, would rather stay together and fight capitalism from within.

While we're doing that you people will just cast your clouds of doom & gloom everywhere and by doing so contribute to the xenophobic arrogance of Britain's contemporary blimps.

[Rory Winter]

[Leiff]

[blackcat]

[Rory Winter]

[Leiff]

[Rory Winter]

[IanFantom]

The question of cultural superiority is a big one, involving a massive CIA campaign, which is a separate issue from the EU Constitution - though I have to say, a very relevant one.

For that reason, I am just about to open up a new thread on Cultural Imperialism.

See some of you there

Regards,

Ian.

[Leiff]

[Rory Winter]

[Rory Winter]

[Rory Winter]

[Justin]

Rory my friend - you've pitched your proverbial tent in the wrong place here. The formation of the EU is a key part of the NWO's plan for world domination - you only have to look at the ghastly people behind the whole European Project starting with the Nazis during WW2. All the information is out there if your pride and ego will allow you to do your own research with an open mind. I was a firm believer in the EEC for business reasons and voted for it back in the 70s, and I was still largely supporting the EU up until five years ago when information I didn't know about was sent to me. After considering the facts carefully, I did a 'U' turn, swallowed my silly pride, and started campaigning to wake people up about the 'Big Picture' which, unfortunately, you still cannot see.

Your overwhelming desire to see an 'independent' Scotland is obviously affecting your judgement and ability to see things clearly. I can assure you that your beloved Scotland will be divided up by the EU Superstate as part of their eventual desire to break up the EU member nations into EU Governing Regions which will mix up forever the old nations boundaries and frontiers,including ,as I say, Scotland and so remove patriotism and that natural sense of belonging to somewhere. Anonymous Orwellian Regions are the future if people like you Rory don't wake up.

Your dislike of UKIP (attack against Pikey on another thread) is also extremely misguided. We must work with anyone (except the totally unacceptable Far Right parties like the BNP who are probably orchestrated and funded by the NWO to steer people in a particular direction) to expose the treasonous network (Common Purpose and the like) which has been set up to ensure that the UK doesn't work properly and which prepares a resource pool of mindless future leaders/robots to take over for when the EU Regions are eventually set up.

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_artic le_id=403522&in_page_id=1766&ito=1490

Swallow your pride and open up your mind to the possibility that you might just be wrong. Trust me, I've done this on quite a few occasions and will continue to do so as the truth continues to come out.

Best wishes

Justin

[blackcat]

I was a firm believer in the "Common Market" project at one time too and even saw fixed currency rates as beneficial, though saw a single currency as a great loss of independance. Free movement of goods and trade sounds great but when a European Parliament was formed and we were given European passports and somehow our very nationality was to be subsumed into a bigger and bigger project it all started to sound pretty horrible. In the light of 9/11 and the agenda of shady powerful people it is a MUST that we stop the European project imho. The latest deceit re the referendum we are no longer going to get sums it up. We are being forced by an elite few into this whether we like it or not. Something stinks!!

[rodin]

Looks like Fascism but is in reality Judeo-Communism. Mossad agent leading France. How did that happen?

[rodin]

How come Thatcher withers on the vine and Major goes to Carlyle? Edwina Currie might have putin a good word for him...

[Rory Winter]

[Rory Winter]

Now that the time has come when both the administratorship and web-hosting of the 911 Truth site is up for reorganization I would make a request to all those responsible for that reorganization that a future 911 Forum has a clear disaffiliation from all political parties so that things like the 7-Day Calendar are not used for advertising party conferences such as the UKIP one in Morecambe.

For if it is the case that the vocal UKIP-supporting clique that exists on this Forum are to be allowed to take it over via the back door than I will have nothing to do with it and will do everything I can to let the Internet world know what has happened. I am sure there are many other Forum readers who would feel the same.

I sincerely hope that such a situation will never come about. But one thing is clear: this forum does not officially support UKIP or any other political party and should remain so. Hence it is intolerable that the 911 Forum Calendar should be used for pro-UKIP attendance of UKIP Party Conferences.

[Justin]

Oh dear Rory - I'm not saying you shouldn't be on the Forum, I'm saying you've 'pitched your proverbial tent in the wrong place' concerning your support for the EU. As anyone who knows me will tell you, I'm not 'arrogant' nor am I 'young' (I'm 52). I'm just saddened that you've skimmed over what I had to say and obviously not visited the two links I gave you to have a look at. Will you please do so and let me have your comments.

FYI I've never been to a UKIP meeting in my life, nor am I a member. There is a broad church of support now from a wide range of people who have real doubts about the EU - UKIP is just a part of that campaign and some EU sceptics, like Brian Gerrish, have real problems with UKIP's leadership.

BTW, do you know about Common Purpose and the accusations levelled at this charity - what are your comments about a pro-EU Fifth Column operating to destabilise Britain from within?

[Rory Winter]

There are two matters going on in parallel here: first is the way the 911 Forum Calendar is being used to advertise UKIP Conferences. Since making my initial complaint about this I have been told that the Calendar has been used in the past to advertise Party conferences in order to encourage 911 Truthers to attend & lobby them.

Well, that is one thing & I would wholeheartedly support that tactic. But to brazenly advertise a Conference as Pikey has done in order to promote his anti-EU views and for purposes of recruitment is quite another and something that should not be allowed. To permit it to go ahead as is happening shows a clear pro-UKIP bias and I am disturbed that, despite appeals, nothing has been done to remove this item. And it looks like nothing will be done about it. That is why I have asked that when the reorganization of this Forum and its administration takes place that a clear disaffiliation is made between the Forum and party politics.

Secondly, there are the issues you mention in your last two posts. I personally have no objection to a federated EU which as far as Scotland is concerned will be no worse a situation than we have at present with continued rule from London. Given a choice between Brussels and London, I would choose Brussels where there exists more sympathy for Scottish self-determination than there ever there could be in London.

I would be delighted to see the present anomaly calling itself the 'United Kingdom' dismantled for, as mentioned before, I wholeheartedly support the view of Scotland's great Socialist, John McLaine, that the day Scotland gets its independence will be the day British imperialism is finally put to rest.

Whereas I see no threat to Scottish self-determination from Brussels I acknowledge that that threat has and always will be from London. And I do not expect London will ever allow us our independence without using every dirty trick, including its secret services, it can think of.

For once the UK is dismantled together with it will disappear the abominable 'special relationship' our rulers have with Washington DC which keeps the Anglo-Saxon Alliance alive ... something that the rest of the world would greatly appreciate and thank little Scotland for in the years to come.

You see, I simply don't accept this empty talk of our freedoms under threat from the European Union. Last made by our Norwegian friend, Leiff, and when challenged the allegation could not be substantiated. And when I ask him and his fellow-travellers what option they would give us to withdrawal from the EU, the answer comes there none. For both the allegation of a loss of freedom and the possibility of an option are both nonsense.

The USA is based upon a federation. So is Canada. So is Australia. I hear no one complaining that living within a federation as they do detracts from their freedom. So why should living in a federated EU detract from our freedom?

You English may still delude yourselves that living in a two-party dictatorship affords you some freedom. Or that drinking pints and driving on the left somehow gives you an edge on liberty. But that's your business and your delusion. If you insist on the stubborn belief that the Westminster parliament is a people's democracy then, again, that's your problem.

We don't see it and when I say 'we' I mean even those Scots who haven't yet been convinced of the need for independence. And if they haven't yet been convinced it's because of a sense of insecurity of going it alone rather than any love of London-rule. Given a choice between English imperialism and Europeanism we will still opt for the thinking of the Auld Alliance and opt for continental Europe. As an ex-regional councillor I can vouch for that. When it comes to choosing between Westminster and Brussels Scottish councils will always choose Brussels because that's where the big money comes from in Regional Development funds.

I'm not suggesting that this has anything to do with Harry Lauder jokes about an alleged Scots mean-ness. But big money talks and the big money comes from Brussels, not London. Where London is concerned, the opposite prevails as all the wealth of Scottish oil has been siphoned away from Scotland by London into the hands of the multinationals. London does us no favours and we know it.

So those are just a few rejoinders regarding federalism. I will read your links and comment later on them.

Your first article in the Brussels Journal -known for its anti-EU stance- is ill-chosen. It quotes Vladimir Bukovsky who I remember very well as a right-wing 'dissident' from the 'eighties. Bukovsky was presented to us by the anti-Soviet western press as a great fighter for liberation. What was never mentioned was that Bukovsky was a leading member of the CIA-run Congress for Cultural Freedom (CCF) and was quite happy to work with the CIA.

So anything coming from Bukovsky's mouth will not impress me. Indeed, it will have quite the opposite effect, leading me to ask if Bukovsky is still working with his erstwhile friends in the CIA to attempt to destabilize the EU with this kind of nonsensical propaganda. And look at the people who invited him to Brussels! What are their connections, I wonder, with the CIA?

[Leiff]

[Rory Winter]

You talk about the threat to Common Law jurisdiction but mention nothing of the fact that the sacrosanct habeas corpus has already been removed by the New Labour government's entirely spurious 'war on terror'. 'Terrorists' were first identified as Muslim fundamentalists and now increasingly as something more, ie anyone who represents a threat to the State.

"No presumption of innocence"? What presumption of innocence do our racist juries give British Muslims who become victims to racist prosecutions by a racist police force and Government?!!

All this has already been done by Westminster's traitor politicians with no urging from Brussels. All the urging came from Washington DC!

These very same politicians deny us the same rights our fellow-EU citizens have under the new Treaty of Human Rights, basic rights which when denied us paved the way for a British police state.

That, by the way, is a key factor benefit which our own UK politicians have chosen to deny us. Why? Because they would rather continue to rule over us as subjects in a serfdom than citizens of a confederation.

And there's nothing wrong in a confederation you know. If you think there is, tell that to the Swiss.

Yet you ignore all that and focus your prejudiced views on the above! Can't you see the huge elephant in the living room which it is politically expedient for you and your ilk to ignore? Can't you see that by constantly whingeing on and blaming 'Europe' for all our ills people like you are responsible for having not done anything about letting the real culprits get away with what they have done to Britain?

And when I say real culprits, let me be quite clear: I mean the traitorous politicians who, obeying Washington's command, have turned Britain into a police state. Brussels had nothing to do with that. It was a unilateral decision made by British traitors who obey Washington and scorn their own people as witness their actions in the Iraq invasion.

You talk about Britain doing a Norway by withdrawing from the EU and going it alone. What nonsense, when the UK is itself in the process of breaking-up! If you people in England want to do that, go ahead. Don't count on us in Scotland following you in your hand-cart to hell.

[Justin]

Rory my friend, you've given me a damn good laugh. I love your views. Here's to a new Jacobite Rebellion. Can I be the new Bonnie Prince Charlie.....I'm sure with a new generation of Highlanders like yourself behind me I'd get further than Derby!

Before you accuse me of being a Sassenach, you had better know that I'm a quarter Irish, a quarter French, a quarter English and a quarter Scottish. Clan Stewart of Appin is my Grandfather's clan so you had better pay homage to me asap!

Good luck to your wonderfully quiant views....but you had better be ready for when the NWO takes away your freedoms!

Best wishes

Justin